Warning

Warning: This site contains images and graphic descriptions of extreme violence and/or its effects. It's not as bad as it could be, but is meant to be shocking. Readers should be 18+ or a mature 17 or so. There is also some foul language occasionally, and potential for general upsetting of comforting conventional wisdom. Please view with discretion.

Wednesday, February 8, 2012

Khamis Brigade Shed Massacre: The Witnesses Recall the Guards

February 7, 2012 last edits (title) May 13

>> The Khamis Brigade Shed Massacre
       >> Shed Massacre Witness List

Soldiers Who Refused
To credit rebel and mainstream reports, bad ends tended to befall Libyan soldier who tried to defect and join "the people" during their 2011 uprising, or who refused alleged orders to slaughter innocents. It goes back to the dawn of the Civil War  in late February and 22 soldiers, of a total of 130 we heard from a "Human Rights Group", shot dead in east Libya, for refusing some evil orders.

The rebels weren't there, so how they knew that's what happened was unclear until clarified by the fact the executed men were last seen in a rebel video (quickly pulled and shown by no rebel supporters now). They were shown around February 22 held by rebel militants, being sentenced to death by them for daring to oppose them. They were blaming the regime to cover for their own atrocity. That explains the strange omniscience.

The Khamis Brigade shed massacre is another bestial crime of the regime rebels know every last thing about. And again, when the order came down to kill the roughly 120-150 prisoners, some soldiers, the alleged survivors say, wouldn't do it and were added to the kill pile.

The knowledge seems far less magical in this case - the defection of soldiers was allegedly witnessed by many people slated for death alongside them. These, unlike the doomed objectors, managed to escape and tell the tale. There seem to at the very least about 30 of these people known currently, and perhaps 60 or more. BBC's Orla Guerin spoke to one of them, elderly alleged survivor Fathallah Abdullah al-Ashter, who managed to run out the doors unharmed and hide under a truck. He spoke of losing two of his sons, and likely a third, although he remained hopeful Ali had lived.
Outside the warehouse he greeted another survivor, Ali Hamouda, with a sombre handshake. Ali was uninjured but told us his cousin was among the dead.
Both men said some of Col Gaddafi's own troops were not spared. They too were imprisoned in the warehouse, presumably for not following orders.
"The soldiers were in the middle," Ali said. "They were sitting on blankets. They took them outside first. After that we heard gunshots. Maybe they executed them. Then they start to shoot us."
No other witness recalls that precursor to the massacre, by the way. Munir El-Goula spoke to ITN News back on August 25 (need to update elsewhere), at least a day before any other media reports on this incident. Though his recall of the space and the number of people is different, he survived what must be the same (alleged) massacre. Soldiers were among the dead, he agreed, but they weren't seated in the middle and pulled out early. Rather, they were standing outside as guards, and then only pushed in at the last minute and killed with the rest. He said, as translated:
When they opened the gate, mercenaries came and pushed the soldiers back into the jail. They shot an old man in the leg. I didn’t think they would kill us, but the mercenaries entered the jail and shot the prisoners in the legs. One took a grenade and threw it in.... 
Reporter Lindsey Hilsum added "[Munir] says, somehow, he escaped, but believes 20 soldiers and more than 100 prisoners were killed." This forces the point that among those who dozens who claimed to have leapt over walls and the like, and survived to speak to the media, all are simple civilians. None of these trained soldiers I'm aware of managed to escaped alive. Hamouda's story explains that better, by having the professionals taken out one at a time, presumably gaurded by several men, and killed first. but I still don't buy his story either.

French paper Libération spoke with witness Dr. Salem Rajab (aka See-Through Salem)
And these three bodies outside, one of which has its feet in a noose? The doctor, while Moustapha said nothing: "These are three soldiers who refused to participate in the implementation and the mercenary," he said, mimicking the scene, "killed them on the spot."
The Dead Outside the Shed
The presence of soldiers among the condemned is thought to explain the three martyrs Dr. Salem mentioned - what seem to many like dead Gaddafi soldiers/"mercenaries" rotting un-burnt around the execution site. A total of at least 11 bodies have been seen in and around the compound, eight of them black men, like Rebel/NTC militias often execute on the spot. The three most widely seen, the ones Salem was asked about, were right next to the shed, bound, executed, and laying under blankets. Two of these are seen at left, from RT Arabic video, with the third just a few feet away to the right.

These three are all between blankets and three mattresses someone was apparently sleeping on. A bag of toiletries hangs next to one of them (the bottom of it visible in the image here). It's outside the jail area, so not likely where a prisoner was sleeping. The victims wear what might be long underwear, but with camouflage uniforms laid over them. An officer's cap, green flags, and army trousers are all strewn nearby (some of that visible here). The one in the foreground was bound by the feet, at any rate, and not shot running. The other, closer views show, has extra wrist damage and decay suggesting his wrists were bound at death and until shortly before the photos were taken (see the link above for such details).

These mattress victims were noted by Clemens Höges, writing for Der Spiegel English, among a total of four exterior corpses he saw.
The four dead men outside the warehouse whose corpses were not burned appear to have been powerfully built, dark-skinned men, as far as can be judged after days in the Libyan heat. It is possible that they were soldiers who wanted to desert or did not want to be involved in the massacre. [Local witness] Ali Boukhatwa confirmed this version of events and also said that the soldiers had been tortured.
They probably had been, in fact. Two other onetime guards now under Rebel captivity, and perhaps subjected to torture or various threats, have claimed roles in this mass killing that completely contradict each other. One, held in az Zawiyah (near Tripoli) spoke in September to Physicians for Human Rights, who gave him the pseudonym "Laskhar." The other, held in Misrata, was paraded before AFP with his confession in late January. His name was given as Ibrahim Sadeq Khalifa (see link for details).

Both soldiers do agree on the number of guards (five) that actually carried out the killing. Khalifa says he was one of the five, while Laskhar says he wasn't even at the base when it happened, but helped with the mop-up after. He adds that three of the five executioners were Libyans, and two were Tuaregs (black foreign mercenaries).

But they disagree on the date, a rather important feature. Laskhar, like most sources, says it happened August 23, while Khalifa, like a few others, say it was the 22nd. And they disagree on when the fire was set. Laskhar says it was only days later when the bodies were burnt, following failed attempts to dig a mass grave (one was seen, fully dug, however,and the rebels say it wasn't them who did it). Khalifa, in contrast, says the other guards poured gasoline/petrol over the living prisoners, apparently after shooting them, and he himself tossed in a few grenades, apparently incendiary ones, which ignited them. "We then locked the garage and left," he told AFP. "We burnt them alive.”

Neither one mentions anything about locking up or killing other guards, and explain the bodies outside only as presumptive prisoners, Rebular Libyan civilian, who escaped but were gunned down anyway. One source was told that a captured soldier (perhaps one of these two or another one, and again possibly tortured or coerced), had been asked and said the corpses were captives, and not even captive Gaddafi soldiers. The caption beneath this Louafi Larbi photo of the mattress victims says:
A rebel fighter walks near the bodies of fellow rebels at the Khamis 32 military encampment in southern Tripoli August 28, 2011. The bodies were recognised as that belonging to rebel fighters by a man who was a former soldier at the camp.
So maybe it was "freedom fighters," as usual the black ones primarily, that the evil loyalists tortured and killed after all. Whatever the case, some of the dead somewhere around there must have been soldiers, according to the rebel witnesses.

Promises of Escape/An Order From the Top
Kim Sengupta for the Independent, Sept. 10, reported the account of police officer-turned rebel militant Amr Dau Algala (apparently the brother of Munir el-Goula/Algala). He's one of the few escapees to mention fire, indirectly. "I started running," he said. "I looked back, but there was too much smoke, I could not see my brother [Abdullah]."

Mr. Algala is also one of those who reported a connection between the coming massacre and the Brigade's namesake and grand overseer, Khamis Gaddafi.
Mr Algala recalled that one day the guards announced that Khamis al-Gaddafi was arriving himself and the prisoners would be free. "People got very excited and the guards started laughing. They said that being 'free' of this place meant that we will all be killed. We did not know whether to believe them or not."

The threat proved to be real the following morning when the murders began.
The plan was being spoken of on August 22, then, if the shooting happened on the 23rd, in ... the morning? Both Laskhar and Khalifa, like most other witnesses, have the incident occurring at evening, at sunset (7:44), after the call to evening prayer, at about 7:30 or 8:00, and so on. It's one of the few generally consistent points, in fact, more agreed than the actual day (which makes sense, really).

But he also has Khamis mentioned, as the origin of this order, first issued on the 23rd, according to guard "Laskhar". He says his superior Hamza got a call from his own boss, Mansour, who in turn reported directly to Khamis Gaddafi. (Several survivors also can cite col. Mansour as the chief there). After the call, which Laskhar sat in for, he was told, as the report says, "Mansour had ordered all detainees at the compound be killed and that the operation begin that night. Laskhar further explained that these orders had come directly from Khamis Gaddafi." Didn't see that coming, did you?

In that version it came by phone, although the witness says Khamis was there personally as well that day. Alleged escapee Mustafa Abdullah el-Hitri/Atiri, also happened to see Khamis visit the walled prison yard personally and, it seems, issue the order right there. In his account to Anthony Loyd, published in the Australian, he said:
"Khamis Gaddafi was here just before the killings [...] I saw him standing in the middle of the yard with his security detail and two commanders as I was taken from a prison van and marched into the barn. He was giving orders to his men."
A Khamis call or not, supposed survivor Abdullatti Musbah Haleem told the Daily Telegraph about the elborate ruse their promised freedom became:
"On Tuesday we were very excited to hear the news of the fall of Bab al-Aziziyah [Gadhafi's compound]. The guards told us that it was all over and we were going to go home that day. One of the guards was from Zliten and I knew him. He said he would unlock the door and all we had to do was undo the latch and then we could escape.

"We undid the door. The first of us went out and were met with a hail of bullets. We ran back inside the hangar but they followed us and threw in six hand grenades. Then they started spraying us randomly with gunfire... 
A couple of other witnesses hint at this same kind of guard trickery, but most others are split between saying the doors were just left open as the guards went to re-load, they all rushed the doors at the same time while opened but guarded, a prisoner kicked the doors open, or they bypassed the locked doors and ran out the hole in the wall.

And there are other versions yet (three), where guards opened the doors for them, but in an earnest effort to help.

Mutually Exclusive Hero Guards: Abdul Razak and Mustafa
Mustafa Abdullah el-Hitri, mentioned above, cites one heroic guard he calls Abdul Razak, to whom owed his life, allegedly. As reported in the Australian:
"Abdul Razak was one of them but he seemed sickened by the killing and told us to flee," Mustafa recounted at the scene, where he had gone to look for other survivors. "He opened the barn doors and told anyone still alive to run for it."
Until recently, el-Hitri was the only witness I knew of who recalled Razak's brave gesture and his name. Then I found young Tahir el-BahBah, who escaped with two of his three cousins, the only other witness to cite this same guard, who shared the name with one of his cousins (Abdul Razak el-BahBah). A goofy auto-translation from Arabic of his account to a survivor's group:
On Tuesday, 2011.8.23 at half past five pm came to us one of the volunteers and his name is Abdul Razak Baroni said we should flee from here half an hour after it was released to you [unlocked], but are only five minutes came up came up volunteers and they fired on us 
A third massacre time is now on the record. Morning, about 5:35 pm, and the conventional time of sunset. Strangely, he has el-Hitri's hero guard trying to help in a different manner entirely from what el-Hitri describes. The original version has Razak successfully letting the few survivors flee after the shooting. El-BahBah's has him trying to free them prior to the planned massacre, but the shooting started anyway five minutes after, which they then had to flee from on their own.

This is the exact type of help offered by another alleged guard, named "Mustafa" (no last name given). It might be relevant that this character has the same first name as Abdul Razak's originator - Mustafa el-Hitri. This story was straight away confirmed by two people, both speaking to the same researchers with Physicians for Human Rights (PHR) for their December report on the massacre.

PHR witness "Mohammed" mentions Mustafa, who tried to help, but the captives goofed it up and triggered their own killing.
Just before the evening call to prayer, the guard named Mustafa whispered through an opening of the warehouse to the group that in 30 minutes he would be back to unlock the main door so they could escape. He also told the group to wait 30 minutes after he had unlocked it before they fled. The detainees started to celebrate, chanting “God is great.” [Allahu Akbar] Mohammad believed the noise may have alerted the other soldiers. One of them (name withheld) found the door unlocked and yelled, “Who opened the coffin?"
And then the killing began. Beofre this, if Mustafa kept his word (follow the bolded parts), they must have been chanting for thirty minutes straight before the door was finally unlocked and then swiftly found that way. He should have unlocked it and told them to be quiet at the same time. This is a strange account.

Omar confirms this basic idea of Mustafa's failed attempt to help, and also relates a longer historywith the man. The outsider guard brought extra food and water and bits of info to Omar during his three-month captivity. But then, Omar says, Mustafa fellunder suspicion of insufficient evil and was ordered switched out. Omar, a businessman, “offered Mustafa a bribe of LYD 200,000 to free him,” PHR report. Nobly, he turned down the money, but promised to alert and release them if he heard anyone hatching plans to kill them all. But so long as it was just daily torture, no dice.

That's a strange deal, but he delivered, in Omar's story. He gives the wrong day, corroborating "confessed mass-murderer" Khalifa, while contradicting Mohammed's account of a noisy response:
On the night of 22 August, Mustafa came to the window before evening prayer with some food and water and said to Omar, “You will either escape or die.” As he had earlier promised, Mustafa left the door of the warehouse unlocked for them, so they could escape later that night. The detainees began organizing into groups of about ten to escape quietly in groups, but somehow the guards discovered that the door was unlocked and began to attack the group with grenades and automatic weapons.
Is this all the same guard, perhaps named Mustafa Abdul Razak Baroni? Or two hero guards, one remembered by some, the other by others? If two, which of the two tried to open the doors early, and which one only after the shooting? Is either one of these just some sort of bizarre memory error, from shock or whatever?

For Those Inclined to Believe the Witnesses...
...which ones then?

Were the killed soldiers dragged out first as Hamouda says, or pushed-in last per el-Goula? Were the dead bodies outside soldiers as they seemed and as Boukhatwa believed, or rebels, as a captive soldier wound up saying? Was the flesh-consuming fire started the same time as the killing, like Mohammed Bashir and soldier Khlaifa said, burning people alive, or was it only to hide the facts days later as A.I. Bashir, Laskhar, and logic suggest? Did the guards find the door shut but unlocked and commence the killing inside the shed, as the PHR witnesses said? Or did they shoot the first ones to step out through the lock they opened themselves? Or did they skip all that, simply open up and start killing people as several other witnesses said?

Or, perhaps... none of the above?

How many false memories on key features of a life-changing event can we responsibly accept? If eyewitness accounts are really this random, why are they ever called on as evidence at all? If they aren't usually this random, what's different here?

44 comments:

  1. CONNECTION SHED WITH THE DEADS IN MITIGA HOSPITAL ?

    -THE 25 POLITICAL PRISONERS AT MITIGA HOSPITAL THE SAME AS :

    Internal Security building/Al-Amal al-Akhdar?

    Al-Swayi [ = Osama Hadi Mansur Al-Swayi ] told Human Rights Watch that two men had also been killed on the ground floor

    does Ragai belong to this massacre tale too Osama Hadi Mansur Al-Swayi ?
    :" Early on the morning of Aug. 21, the guards opened the door of the cell next to Ragai’s and led out six prisoners. Ragai told me he spoke to one of the guards, a man named Munir, whom he had befriended. It was a last chance "
    On August 26, Human Rights Watch also examined two corpses that were still in place at the Al-Amal al-Akhdar Internal Security building in Gargur

    http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2011/08/26/world/africa/20110827_LIBYA-slide-M2WD/20110827_LIBYA-slide-M2WD-jumbo.jpg

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Sway at Internal Security, allegedly. Two men on ground floor, different position. Inaccurate 2nd hand info, rather than memory, likely.

      Ragai (poss. same as Lt. Col. Jamal Rabbani) is from the Qasr Ben Ghushr weirdness, definitely a bunch of made-up nonsense that happened on two different days, the 21st and the 24th.

      All off-topic here, but oh well. Cheers!

      Delete
  2. -Gargur district : school executions, 1 survivor Mansour al Hadi : 1 boy 15 YEARS among the dead

    -Schoolhouse,temporary prison
    -loading remains of 17 men on a truck/half of them shot in the head/
    -17 bodies + 1 survivor Mansour al Hadi / Mitiga hospital


    Mansour : tortured for days , urine pourred over them, 2 nights ago ordered outside ago , against the wall and sprayed machine gunfire

    http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/54830000/jpg/_54830172_jex_1148502_de27-1.jpg

    http://www.digitalhen.co.uk/news/world-africa-14729083



    Mitiga hospital :25 political prisoners hurdled in the open and shot down

    just 1 survivor Osama Hadi Mansur Al-Swayi : khadafi soldier and 2 african mercenaries
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-14673864
    take 4 away/gunshot wounds

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thanks, that had slipped through my cracks thoit sounds vaguely familiar. Think I saw it slip past in the chaos somewhere. Sounds AMAZINGLY similar to the activists story. Two stories with two survivors attached to the same set of bodies, perhaps? Poor co-ordination of cover-up efforts?

      Anyone care to sort these two out side-by-side (maybe 10 hours of work) and co-author a report with me later, as a Citizen's Investigation signatory and member? I won't be touching it myself for a while. Drafting a letter to Physicians for Human Rights.

      Delete
  3. TAKE 4 AWAY FROM MITIGA HOSPITAL :MAY BE THEY BURIED HERE :

    -gravediggers cursed at the unidentified, five-day-old bodies of four men they said were Qaddafi soldiers. They were mercenaries, the gravediggers said, offering no evidence and saying they were found near the colonel’s compound. They were given an incomplete Islamic rite, and then dumped in a single grave

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/27/world/africa/27imam.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all

    ReplyDelete
  4. ANOTHER 4 bodies FOUND IN YARMOUK [SHED?]

    http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2011/09/08/world/africa/20110909_LIBYA.html

    Rebel fighters exhumed a body from a grave in the Yarmouk neighborhood of Tripoli containing four dead men alleged to have been killed by retreating Qaddafi forces as Tripoli fell to the rebels

    http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2011/09/08/world/africa/20110909_LIBYA-2.html

    The fighters chanted "Allah is great" after exhuming the bodies.

    http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2011/09/08/world/africa/20110909_LIBYA-3.html


    BUT THEY ARE BRINGING BODIES NOT YET COVERED IN PLASTIC HERE :

    http://i43.tinypic.com/fbcdir.jpg
    rebels bringing bodies in small truck

    http://i42.tinypic.com/2a12zo.jpg

    http://i42.tinypic.com/14uaofs.jpg

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I was aware of this, but hadn't worked it in yet. Likely connected, area undecided, details apparently scarce.

      Delete
  5. In Mansoura : north of the compound
    a refrigerate truck found @ sport center with more than 10 bodies inside

    http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid601325122001?bckey=AQ~~,AAAAAEabvr4~,Wtd2HT-p_Vh4qBcIZDrvZlvNCU8nxccG&bctid=1128958791001

    the local computer engineer : abdel hamid [ connection mosque 3.05]

    ReplyDelete
  6. http://i43.tinypic.com/1219vo1.jpg
    abdel hamid @ mitiga hospital

    http://i43.tinypic.com/2w24gsm.jpg
    standing @ 4 bodies

    http://i41.tinypic.com/5bp43p.jpg
    abdel hamid in truck @ mitiga hospital

    http://i42.tinypic.com/8wip9v.jpg
    abdel hamid @ mitiga hospital

    http://i40.tinypic.com/mliagh.jpg
    http://i44.tinypic.com/30joj2u.jpg


    http://i39.tinypic.com/2v0miwj.jpg

    abdel hamid @ mansoura


    http://i40.tinypic.com/208vb4h.jpg
    abdel hamid @ mosque

    http://i39.tinypic.com/v41m4j.jpg
    mosque

    http://i40.tinypic.com/20960lc.jpg




    http://i41.tinypic.com/oqac20.jpg

    abdel hamid @ yarmouk shed

    ReplyDelete
  7. THE LOCAL COMPUTER ENGINEER ABDEL HAMID ALSO POPS UP IN THE YARMOUK SHED @ 2.09 :

    http://alpha.video.msn.com/hub/Video.aspx?vid=cbcc2011-2808-2148-0024-210955949600&mkt=en-CA&f=226#

    THE YOUNGEST DIED 16 YEARS, THE OLDEST 75
    doors right shed taken out 0.44/Political Prisoners murdered last Monday night



    BTW : SADIQ APPEARS HERE AS BASHIR EL SEDAT @1.36

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Sounds new, so I better have a look. Thanks.

      Delete
  8. Adam - did you spot this facebook page?? Another alleged victim, Ramadan Mahmoud Mohamed Jabr, born either 1934 or 1943. Another flowery story, allegedly told by a surivor, رجباادهيديه
    or Rajub Adhedia (that name doesn't seem to exist elsewhere) , who found him lying in front of a house on 26 August. You can translate the rest...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. he's about half way down the 18 September list here on the Freezliten.net page but also in this list of Zliten martyrs as رمضان محمود محمد جابر - محلة ازدو الشمالية
      There's also a victim Rajub Ali Rajub Falafel....رجب علي رجب فلفل

      Delete
    2. Score! I saw the picture, a coffin, "martyr," ignored. The dead are too huge a list, unverifiable, not as zany or telling as the ones who claim they didn't even get hurt but saw it all. I'd like to sort them out some day as well, but definitely not now.

      But lo and behold, he is a survivor, briefly, succumbing to injuries and illness four days later. I thought the date was just a goof. All second-hand info passed to his son. Great name, Ramadan, for a massacre happening at its height. Saved it all.

      The photo was from another photo, decorated, framed, and displayed at the shed site. The reflection on the glass shows the compound wall and the cameraman.

      Now the survivor who made the call, he might need to be added too. Rajub gave me July-is that the meaning? We have a Dr. July and this guy? (poss. the same). I guess these two new names go in the second-and accounts section, but I think I'll work both lists together, with a note for 2nd hand. Big list again, then...

      Delete
  9. http://i44.tinypic.com/2ngshed.jpg

    a new meeting with the local computer engineer abdel hamid at the shed

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZ45gA_d-FI

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. That's where the blue truck was parked for the first Stuart Ramsay Sky TV video.

      Delete
  10. PHR further reported that prisoners suffered “electrocution with ‘Taser’ type electroshock weapons, as well as beating with electric cables, metal rods, and wooden planks and batons.” Several prisoners were confined to metal boxes in the back of storage vehicles where there wasn’t enough space to sit or stand. One prisoner told PHR that “when he asked for water, the guards sometimes poured motor oil or urine, from bottles in which detainees had relieved themselves, into his open mouth.”

    http://www.warscapes.com/reportage/qaddafis-abattoir

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Interesting find, hurriya. Just more received opinion from the official narrative. Photos by Saad Basir and Balint Szlanko But the painted out "muammar" sign means that they were there after Sky TV....

      Delete
    2. An unusual piece, that, and a great addition to have. I didn't see a date anywhere.

      Highly interesting passage:
      Upon arriving, Mustafa made inquiries about what had happened from rebel forces outside the gates. He and other members of his unit then refused to enter. “I don’t want to remember that I [also] killed people,” he said, and promptly left. Confused by the comment, and not fully comprehending the situation, I walked in.
      [???]
      Blackened corpses, swollen in the heat, were visible in the courtyard, barely concealed by blankets and rugs and left to decompose.
      Again with "blackened!" The guys were black guys, most of them. Come on,people, pay attention!
      ...a sudden decision to eject journalists, who were by now descending on the site in greater numbers.

      “Out! Out! Out!” one rebel cried, gesturing towards the exit with his rifle. He was in a manic state, his eyes bloodshot. He took to darting back and forth across the compound intimidating those he deemed interlopers.

      Some correspondents tried to calm him and explain the importance of documenting the situation and showing the world what Qaddafi did. The insistent mix of alien languages quieted the fighter, but he didn’t lower his gun.

      Other rebels, in their agitation, voiced suspicion that foreign journalists might deliberately portray the slaughter as having been committed by the rebels and thus besmirch the freedom movement.

      No, their secret was quite safe.

      Delete
    3. It's January 2012...see this page
      The "out! out! out!" rebel reminds me of the guy with wispy beard and stiped shirt!

      Balint Szlanko was travelling with the Tripoli Brigade - see his Photo of the Irishman Hosam Najjair
      @balintszlanko tweeted on the 29th : Tripoli warehouse massacre site scene of extraordinary evil. Can't seem to get that smell out of my nose.
      Elsewhere, we read: Balint Szlanko is a London-based freelance journalist embedded with the 10th Mountain Division of the U.S. Army in Wardak and Logar provinces, Afghanistan, for the month of July 2009.

      Delete
    4. @ felix : your whispy beard : I did make some shots of journo's At the Tripoli Brigade. Note : in Wazin/Zintan I don't see your whispy beard, although I did estimate him being a Zintani : but he pops up in the yarmouk weapon depot , looting. And of course as a big help at the shed, as you pointed out.

      Here some shots of the tripoli brigade :


      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUr0yEqvoe8
      tripoli brigade looting yarmouk weapon depot [skinny beardman compagnon hatari and whispy beard]

      http://msnbcmedia3.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Slideshows/_production/ss-110303-libya-tabbed/ss-110801-libya-august/ss-110805-libya-august-07.grid-5x2.jpg
      Najjair aka sam : the gloves are for protecting hands while firing heavy anti-aircraft weapons such as the shilka.

      http://i43.tinypic.com/21jupvq.jpg
      hatari and his beard compagnon
      http://i43.tinypic.com/epqgow.jpg

      http://i44.tinypic.com/15i89r4.jpg
      hatari and his relative
      http://i40.tinypic.com/15zqp01.jpg
      hatari , zitoun
      http://i40.tinypic.com/34otx7q.jpg
      ferjany, zitoun
      http://i40.tinypic.com/r77k9w.jpg
      adam , left in the middle

      http://i43.tinypic.com/35damhf.jpg
      big leader Tripoli brigade , name ???
      http://i40.tinypic.com/2uqyvt1.jpg
      http://i42.tinypic.com/16i5lxy.jpg
      filmer , left & big leader


      journo & filming ppl , Tripoli Brigade
      http://i41.tinypic.com/qytzfb.jpg
      http://i40.tinypic.com/6xwaxk.jpg
      http://i43.tinypic.com/sq17dg.jpg
      http://i43.tinypic.com/2qaivkw.jpg

      Delete
    5. @felix, you know I was wrong @ Moez picture before ,
      thought it was 1 of the spectacles

      can you give names to this Tr BR pics?

      http://i44.tinypic.com/kf2k9w.jpg
      http://i41.tinypic.com/280meqr.jpg
      http://i42.tinypic.com/2n9at7d.jpg
      http://i40.tinypic.com/1418sbc.jpg
      http://i41.tinypic.com/2r4proh.jpg

      http://i41.tinypic.com/28srocj.jpg
      mlegta?

      http://i39.tinypic.com/2cf43dg.jpg
      tripoli brigade red beard and [zintani?] whispy beard

      http://www.algeria-isp.com/public/syrie2(5).jpg
      the troop together
      http://www.algeria-isp.com/actualites/politique-libye/201202-A8928/libye-une-photo-pseudo-journaliste-anglais-paul-conroy-compagnie-membre-qaida-abdelhakim-belhadj-libye-fevrier-2012.html#.T0qpWwU0X9g.twitter

      http://i40.tinypic.com/dmdug4.jpg
      a well known foreigner for you felix

      http://i43.tinypic.com/20kpx10.jpg
      mosque man standing behind red beard , may be seen in an arabic hospital vid [posted on blog before]& on green square as guard

      http://i41.tinypic.com/2r4proh.jpg
      new business rulers

      btw : lost my own Moez photo link

      Delete
  11. @ caustic : imho the tripoli brigade was 21 or 22 aug in the way to yarmouk, misrata brigade seems to joined in later

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. @Hurriya - That was the feeling I was getting also. No proof of course.

      Delete
    2. It's possible. We have the local fighters based perhaps just down the road, the Tripoli brigade, others Zintan people, and Misrata brigades, maybe others (a special Zlitan brigade is even suggested by all the Zlitni "survivors"). I'd say the bodies around the shed, just crawling with maggots by the 27th, were probably killed around the 23rd or later, and the earliest glimpse we get of these corpses is just hours after the alleged massacre. Sometimes things like dates and numbers of dead come right through in rebel stories, with only every intervening detail altered by their poetic templates.

      But maybe the Misrata people just arrived late and decided to help with the cover story, starting a little too soon with 6am on the 24th.

      Delete
    3. this man is related to two [ or more?] murder places :

      Early on the morning of Aug. 21, the guards opened the door of the cell next to Ragai’s and led out six prisoners Ragai told me he borrowed a car from a man he met near the prison and drove back to Tajoura and joined the Tripoli uprising It started the night before.

      Ragai’s own concern, he told me, was to free the 150 prisoners at Yarmouk Ragai gathered as many men as he could, and a large group of seasoned fighters from Misrata joined them. Soon they had a force of about 150 cars, and they drove west toward Yarmouk in an armed caravan

      He must have been there 21 or 22 aug and of course he was too late, he said
      True or was another group before him? Sam was on the way from bab azizya on 22 aug

      Delete
  12. On another topic - the media war.

    One of the most prolific aggregators of videos related to Libya was 1VSMRK's channel. It has been brought down because of copyright complaints from "Libya Freedom", "Harry Fear" and "Mohamad Deera". So, I googled "Mohamad Deera". Turns out the guy has a linkin account Mohamad Deera operates out of Edmonton, Canada, and runs the site Zintan Media which bills itself (in Arabic) as the official website of the Zintanti. Take my word for it, Edmonton, Canada is really, really far away from Zintan, Libya.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yeah , Edmonton, Dublin Manchester. In the UK I get the feeling that the UK Government/secret services were already before February 2011 tapping into the dissident scene in the last named. Perhaps even before there was a change of goverment in May 2010. The MP CHairman of the UK All Party Libyan Group ,polish born Daniel Kawczynski, was salivating in early 2011 at the prospect of an overthrow of the Gaddafi regime and whose book Seeking Gaddafi came out shortly before regime change in the UK. (Has anyone read it? It seems as if Iran is already teed up to replace Libya for being culpable for Lockerbie).

      Delete
    2. The UK goverment with some help of their friens in Manchester :

      HISHAM BEN GHALBON WAS 1 OF THE FIRST IN UK TO HELP SET UP OPPOSITION MOVEMENT AGAINST KHADAFI IN THE 70s AND 80s
      http://i42.tinypic.com/2ih4k0y.jpg

      http://i40.tinypic.com/2uymywp.jpg
      http://i42.tinypic.com/29p6atv.jpg
      http://i41.tinypic.com/6ghp8j.jpg
      http://i42.tinypic.com/fvldz6.jpg
      http://i40.tinypic.com/2wpjnrn.jpg
      http://i39.tinypic.com/30vhc02.jpg
      http://i39.tinypic.com/6p6y38.jpg

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gw3Rb2GdjCs&feature=related

      The UK has played a significant role in the Libyan conflict, pressing for the UN resolutions and implementing the no-fly zone over Libya. The importance of the UK to the rebel’s chance of success has not been lost on British-Libyans.

      Delete
    3. @hurriya - I saw that YouTube video. some more background with audio clips...
      http://soundcloud.com/danielash3/living-on-a-death-list-hisham
      http://soundcloud.com/danielash3/life-after-the-libyan-embassy
      http://uklibyafocus.wordpress.com/2011/06/20/gaddafi-and-the-uk-%e2%80%93-a-turbulent-history/
      www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlIOjytuN5w

      He mentions a car bomb 11 March 1984 (PC Yvonne Fletcher was killed outside Libyan PB 17 April 1984)..my notes follow
      hisham ben ghalbon set up opposition movement in 70s and 80s.
      Libyan Constitional Union - several addresses in London were bombed, particularly kiosks where arabic newspapers were sold. one of the main ones took place in manhester - 46 Alness road, Whalley Range. he lived there for 3 years until 1980.(that's 4 years before the quoted bomb if I hear it correctly) when people responsible Hit squad arrested by CID MI5 taken to court and were tried for putting an explosive device under the car that they thought was mine. (in 2011, says a child was injured in audio clip) but there is no internet presence. Would need to consult newspapers. Perhaps some false flag ops among them? messy time.

      more videos here...
      http://www.youtube.com/user/BLSCampaign#p/u/53/WABcLBN2Ttg
      http://www.youtube.com/user/BLSCampaign#p/u/54/LPHSB6_DDAw
      http://www.youtube.com/user/BLSCampaign#p/u/97/idmeuTeF3cs

      Delete
    4. @ felix : Lockerbie)

      http://www.aljazeera.com/news/africa/2012/02/201222618624894299.html

      New evidence casts doubt in Lockerbie case

      Delete
  13. The actual link for 1VSMRK's former youtube channel is 1VSMRK. Sorry about that. There were more than 2000 uploads on that channel.

    ReplyDelete
  14. @Caustic - de.putre.madre, on the "neighbours enter the massacre site" page comments, notes the New York Times article by Robert Worth, May 9 2012,In Libya, the Captors Have Become the Captive . It can be read on one page here: http://relevantscience.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/in-libya-captors-have-become-captive.html But see original article for photos of Nasser Salhoba etc. Looks like a story to shore up the offical Yarmouk shed narrative. Namechecks guard Abdel Razaq al-Barouni and Hamza Hirazi, the commander who oversaw the torture at Yarmouk. Allegedly.
    In the early days after the fall of Tripoli, when I first met him,[Jalal Ragai] he had joined with a group of hard-core rebel fighters from Misurata, where some of the war’s bloodiest battles took place. But the Misuratans began carrying out brutal reprisals on their newly acquired prisoners. One of the Yarmouk guards they captured, a man named Abdel Razaq al-Barouni, was actually viewed as a hero by some of the former prisoners, who told me Barouni unlocked the door of the hangar and urged them to escape just before the Yarmouk massacre began. After Jalal watched one of the Misuratans shoot Barouni in the foot during an interrogation, he decided to take his own fighters and leave, reluctantly allowing the Misuratans to cart off some of his prisoners to their city. More than commenter wants Worth to win a Pullitzer for this article...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Proposed Teaching Course : Feb. 27 -- Libya

      Erum Jilani has worked at Obama for America
      www.hks.harvard.edu/syllabus/IGA-651.doc -

      Course Page Readings:
      Robert F. Worth, “On Libya's Revolutionary Road” New York Times Magazine March 30, 2011. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/03/magazine/mag-03Libya-t.html ...

      Delete
    2. @ felix : ciamazigh reads yr comments too!

      youngamazigh ‏ @youngamazigh
      Best article i've read "In Libya, the Captors Have Become the Captive" http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/13/magazine/in-libya-the-captors-have-become-the-captive.html?smid=tw-share Pulitzer for Robert F. Worth #libya #feb17
      Retweeted by Lindsey Hilsum

      Delete
    3. I don't think so - it was well tweeted and retweeted. Based in UK...followed by Hilsum...
      another tweet:
      Umar Khan ‏ @umarnkhan
      speaking with the one of the few prisoners who successfully escaped Abu Salim prison on 19/8 after NATO bombed the compound #Libya
      7:52 PM - 9 May 12 via web ·

      Delete
    4. @ felix : successfully escaped Abu Salim prison on 19/8 after NATO bombed the compound #Libya


      28,000 prisoners :[ prison of the most notorious killers, freed prisoners immediately headed to richer districts as hay andalus]

      NATO airstrikes in Tripoli spurred the prisoners to attempt escape, and one of Gaddafi's colonels offered to help.
      "In the last days NATO forces struck nearby. We were so afraid because we heard the TV say that Abu Salim was empty and we thought NATO would bomb us," he said.
      "The Colonel opened the prison doors for us to escape but it's a long way from the prison to the main gate and when we got there Gaddafi troops started firing on us, so we went back to the prison again," he said.
      The troops killed two people and wounded eight, he said.
      Ashraf returned to Benghazi on a humanitarian flight on Saturday after being rescued. At least two ships full of prisoners have arrived in Benghazi since the capture of Tripoli.
      Colonel Hisham Buhagiar, commander of the anti-Gaddafi forces, said 28,000 prisoners had been freed so far, but officials say thousands remain unaccounted for.
      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8734171/Libya-rebel-describes-torture-and-starvation-at-hands-of-Gaddafi-loyalists.html

      Delete
    5. @Hurriya - can we believe all of this (no author attached to the Telegraph article)?? "...Abu Salim prison -- notorious for a massacre in 1996 that killed 2,000" (!)

      Delete
    6. Comment by juergenorlok :

      Which is cultivating the lie about Abu Salim massacre.

      The real massacre happend during the [attack] of Tripoli.

      That was impossible for them to inquire though they were at the location. Too obvious a crime of their auxilliary. I think I have enough material to prove it.
      .com/2012/04/11/misrata-letter-to-council-regarding-the-serious-crimes-against-humanity-committed-by-armed-groups-of-the-ntc-nato/

      http://libyaagainstsuperpowermedia.com/2012/04/11/misrata-letter-to-council-regarding-the-serious-crimes-against-humanity-committed-by-armed-groups-of-the-ntc-nato/

      Delete
    7. Lindsey Hilsum ‏ @lindseyhilsum
      Wanise Elisawi, eyewitness to #AbuSleemMassacre, major character in my bk will be with me @Foyles tomorrow night 6.30.
      https://twitter.com/#!/FaberBooks/statuses/187109718433595392

      Wanise Elisawi, witness to 1996 #Abusalim massacre #tripoli, speaks for the first time tonight on @channel4news. Will be on website later.
      https://twitter.com/#!/lindseyhilsum/statuses/107868632343785472

      http://blogs.channel4.com/world-news-blog/abu-salim-was-the-spark-of-libyas-revolution/18068

      Libya's Muslim Brotherhood sets up political party :Benghazi-native Wanise Elisawi,4 Mar 2012

      .

      Delete
    8. Hussein Shafei

      Human Rights Watch said it had no way to verify Shafei's story but another description of the incident from a report by the opposition National Front for the Salvation of Libya corroborated Shafei's account.
      http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/08/27/libya.abu.salim.massacre/index.html

      Delete
    9. Tasbeeh Herwees, a Libyan-American journalism student in California, recalled in a blog post the funerals for the Abu Salim victims held in the summer of 2009 when she visited Benghazi.

      The memories of that summer come rushing back as I watch the present events in Libya unfold from my home in Cypress, California," Herwees wrote. "It was, after all, the Abu Salim families who kick-started this revolution.

      Delete
    10. .....a Libyan folk hero.

      In 1984, Benghazi-native Wanise Elisawi was part of a group of conspirators who had planned a coup against Gadhafi. The Revolutionary Guards uncovered the plan, which led to the arrest of roughly 2,000 people. Twelve were hanged, and Elisawi spent the next 18 years in prison. He was tortured with electroshocks and forced to repeatedly run into walls at full speed.


      In fact, part 1 of the article, about the difficulty of German firms doing business in Libya, starts off with the usual lie...
      "That was because the Germans -- unlike the French -- hadn't sent in fighter jets in March 2011 but, instead, looked on as Gadhafi's troops massacred their fellow Libyans." Perhaps the Germans ought to be spending more time exposing it.

      Some coups are good, some coups are bad I guess. Don't try this in the US or Saudi Arabia for instance.

      Ref: http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/paying-for-un-abstention-german-businesses-unwelcome-in-postwar-libya-a-818336-2.html Mar 1 2012, Uwe Buse and Takis Würger, Der Spiegel.

      Delete
    11. @ felix :Schnaars was served his coffee, but it was in the waiting room, where he could hear his Libyan host enthusiastically greeting the French delegation through the closed door.

      the sick goal of this piece is : if germany had bombed more than they would have better business now


      http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/jul/09/germany-arms-sale-saudi-arabia
      Germany's contribution to the Arab spring: arms sales
      http://www.thelocal.de/national/20110628-35925.html
      http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,781197,00.html
      GERMAN SOLDIERS

      http://www.ikners.com/?p=55253
      BRITAIN'S DEFENSE SECRETARY PHILIP HAMMOND : Huge Potential’ for Germany to Fight Massive Wars

      Delete

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