Warning

Warning: This site contains images and graphic descriptions of extreme violence and/or its effects. It's not as bad as it could be, but is meant to be shocking. Readers should be 18+ or a mature 17 or so. There is also some foul language occasionally, and potential for general upsetting of comforting conventional wisdom. Please view with discretion.
Showing posts with label Nafusah mountains. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Nafusah mountains. Show all posts

Friday, October 7, 2011

The Qawalish Tree Farm Massacre: Mass Grave Locale

August 19, 2011
last edits Aug 21

Why it's a Tree Farm
Of major importance to the investigation of the Qawalish tree farm massacre, of 30-34 civilians allegedly killed by government forces and dumped "in the Qala'a area" is precisely where the mass grave was discovered. The spot is possibly not far from where government soldiers were dumped and found, in a water basin, in July. This is generally presumed a rebel crime, despite the thin excuse that Gaddafi did it.

To establish the location of this other, nearby, crime, one must first accept the general locale given. This is the area around Qala'a, by Yefren, about 12 miles northeast of Qawalish, in a small nook of the Nafusah mountains (maps below).

Then one should consider the immediate surroundings as they were filmed. The image at right is made from a lower resolution copy before I found the clear one at Facebook (all copies listed). But well enough it shows the view in seven of eight directions (barring due east). These might be backwards. The long shadows indicate a time near sunrise or sunset, and for some reason it seemed more like morning to me. If that's wrong, you would flip all directions - northeast would be southwest.

As we can see here, tall evergreens (cedar?) proliferate in all views. Hundreds of them are visible from this one spot. (To actually get a good look, open it full-size in a new window.)

First, it became clear this wasn't the immediate Qala'a area. Aside from the moderate slope to the west and northwest, the ground is too level. There are also too much foliage in too many directions to be the minor forested area that separates Qala'a from Yefren with only thin ribbons of trees along ridge crests. (see the area here)

There are however at least two tree farms that have come to my attention as possible locales, thanks to some research by reader Peet73, and a third location that's not a match, thanks to a Libyan rebel group. These are variously given as farm, forest, and agriculture center. The satellite imagery shows the two that matter to be covered with neat rows of irrigated and managed trees suggesting a farm, answering all descriptions fairly enough.

The different locations and names of locations that have been offered for this site have helped us start to identify it, but have also helped confuse things along the way. All three given names are similar enough I was at one point willing to call them all variants of the same. But on examination, they seem to refer to three distinct forested spots. One is irrelevant. The other two both could be a match. One of these reportedly housed government forces and weapons back in May and June at least - and thus perhaps their alleged victims as well.

The Outlier: Al-Ma'lab
Four days after the tree farm massacre surfaced in video form, the group Shabbab Libya issued an August 9 demand for the government (in Benghazi) to open an investigation into this government (in Tripoli) crime. This press release cites the locations as, possibly, "the Al-Mal'ab forest area." It was urgent the bodies be found and given a proper burial as soon as possible, but it'd be slow going, since "this location is heavily mined and it is impossible to search." They also called for mine-clearing teams to get to the area quickly.

This name, al-Mal'ab, is just different enough from the other two, nearly identical-sounding ones, that I had to double-check it. There was no record at Google maps, but a listed "Wādī al Mal`ab in Yafran," at worldgeographics.com, had a roads-based map and a pin locator for it. It was near enough to matter. So I sought the same spot on Google maps, looking for a tree-lined river bed (a wadi is a dry river bed that flows only seasonally).

It's there, about thirty miles (as the crow flies) to the north of Yefren, not outside of dumping range I suppose, aside from having to cross the mountains and drive nearly an hour.

But what's there is only a tiny, tiny stretch of river valley at the sometimes-river's ben. There are only a few dozen trees, perhaps, visible from any one spot. Whatever the species, that's not enough foliage to explain what the video shows. Shabbab Libya was wrong, but hopefully the NTC can send a team to al-Mal'ab to investigate, and they can step on some mines. Meantime, I just investigate with what I have here.

The Big Farm: Alumblyab
The named location of the mass grave in one posting of the video, by Algelawy2009, is "the farm Alumblyab." At least that's according to Google translate; the Arabic comment gives "مزرعة المليعب" as the location of this "apparent mass murder."

This clue was spotted, and the spot located, by Peet73 on Wikimapia, which has a mile-wide, circular patch of trees in the desert well south of Qala'a, conveniently spelled out as the "Alumblyab forest." This is pictured at right; seen zoomed in, it is a nice match for the scene's gently rolling topography, tree cover, and unusual packed and scored soil.

This gives us a location nearer to Qawalish - the town just outside of which the water basin discovery was made - than to Qala'a. Also known as al-Galaa, the town this video is attached to is Algelawy2009's hometown, he says. "I am from Algalah and I know this area very well," he says in a separate comment at someone else's posting. And he's sure this is at the Alumblyab tree farm. In the area he knows the best, it's right by the town not recently associated with barbaric rebel atrocities.

The One of Previous Interest: Almliab
In a June 3 press release, rebel support group Shabbab Libya (Libyan youth) had mentioned an "agriculture centre" called "Almliab" in the Yefren and Qala'a area. Its location wasn't shown, but the co-ordinates were given, and I decided to double-check using Earth Tools. I used their number for the forest itself (31°58’38.03″N, 12°40’26.62″E), and the first of the four buildings listed (31°58’59.04″N, 12°40’30.84″E). I got it as close as I could (within tens of feet), and both came out right next to each other, but not on top of or even next to the area we were looking at. It's a separate forested area about 3-4 miles southeast of Qawalish, further yet from Qala'a. The tree cover and topography could also explain the video, in my opinion.

All this information was provided in a different context unrelated to the massacre discovered two months later (see below). But "Almliab" is similar enough in name, and the possible match good enough, that it's worth wondering, as Peet73 and I did, if this is what they meant.

Then I was tipped off to a comment I missed, by the same Algelawy2009 who specified Alumblyab. At this video's comments (same as cited above), the al-Qala'a native says "it is in Algalah in the area called Almlaeb” It almost seems that he's now specified both tree farms.

This Alumblyab/Almliab distinction can be a bit confusing, and I acknowledge I've got no certain answer to it. But here are the possibilities:
- There are two tree farm areas flanking Qawalish with very similar names
Or:
- The places are considered the same, with one name, just in two sections several miles apart.
Or:
- Wikimapia had it wrong (who plugs this info in and updates it?)
Or:
- Some other kind of linguistic mix-up, error, or misdirection.

Threat Positions
The June announcement via Shabbab Libya, mentioned above, was mainly to claim the opening of a supply line to Yefren and al-Qala’a from rebel-held Az Zintan, to bring “humanitarian” supplies to this front line, and asking for NATO air support to protect it. They also gave specific co-ordinates of government forces that "threatened [...] the region of Yefren and the Nafusa mountains." 

Among the precise spots "threatening" (otherwise, defending) the area and its civilians was "Almliab forest (VERY IMPORTANT)." This is also called by them a "scouting camp and agricultural center," which housed a "large force including at least 4 tanks, grad, ammunition, personnel, etc. It is the main army supply to the area (substation) for forces heading west." Beyond this, they assured NATO that "command and control is highly suspected to be in one or more of the 4 buildings given."

Map: Positions of Gaddafi forces near Yefren and Al Qalaa
Posted on May 25, 2011 by admin, at Libyafeb17.com.

This map, posted by Amazigh_Libya on May 22nd shows the position of Gaddafi forces around the towns of Yefren and Al Qalaa. The area has been under siege for 2 months.


http://www.libyafeb17.com/2011/05/map-positions-of-gaddafi-forces-near-yefren-and-al-qalaa/

One ImazighenLibya, probably not the same as this Amazigh_Libya, has an interesting involvement with protecting the rebel version of the tree farm massacre video, as explained here (last section). I mention that on the off-chance the Youtube activist is the same as this regional activist, using sources inside, one supposes, to show NATO where to bomb, perhaps. And also, perhaps, where to plant rebel victims in order to blame Gaddafi.

Here is an image I made from that, zooming in on the Qawalish area where the bodies were found, with the blue pins re-done in red.

We can see this collation of whatever data pinpoints the Almliab tree farm base at the right edge with two pins, as well as four other spots around Qawalish, mostly at road intersections where there's nothing but a small shack. Simple check-points "threaten" the people of Yefren and Qala'a? And why, even in June, is the threat to closer-yet Qawalish not mentioned?

There are no pins that line up with the Alumblyab forest, for whatever that's worth.

Pinpointing the Locale: Later, Maybe
At the moment, it remains unsettled just where the video was filmed, let alone by whom. It is possible, hypothetically, to find a match from satellite imagery with the exact clearing shown in the video, in one or another of these tree farms. But I won't bet any time trying. The images used are are usually some years old, and while trees tend to grow many years in the same spots and patterns before being cut, they do get cut, and there's no guarantee what the videos shows will really match anything the satellite saw in the year 20whatever.

However, for what it's worth as a clue, there is a different type of tree visible, for only a frame or two, in only one direction - to the northeast as I have it, nearest "soldier" #4. I can't identify it yet. It doesn't look like an olive tree or a few others I considered. I'm open to suggestions. 

It might be nothing but some mixed plating, or the start of someone's orchard blending a bit into the edge of the evergreen factory, helping set the location - near the forest's edge. Does the lighting pattern suggest the area further to the right is more open, with smaller trees and less canopy? I think it might. But again, I'm not planning to pinpoint the locale at this time.

The confusion over the location names is also unsettled. The same supposedly knowledgeable source seemingly gives both tree farm names to describe this one place, from the small area he comes from and "knows well." And the foreign-based rebel info conduit Shabbab Libya is pointing way to the north and asking for minesweepers already so someone can have a look there.

Conclusion/Prediction
The requested rebel investigation in Benghazi will surely form and have a look, at both this and the newer, larger, Tawergah massacre of 150 civilians, blamed on Gaddafi, plus whatever other slaughters are "uncovered" as the rebel advance.

Only time will tell if they're able to say these 30 bodies were dumped in a forest (reportedly) used by Gaddafi's forces and, therefore, clearly killed by them. Time will probably say "yes, that's just what they found." I predict they will specify the Almliab scouting camp and agriculture center, and again blame the old regime.

Will the world still believe them? Or has the spell worn off?

Update, October 7: A Location guess

A photo of the scene I recently came across helps clarify enough details to let me make a guess for a specific mass grave location. The photo at left (original page) was taken Sept. 7 by Abdel Gassem Kreir, a Qalaa native and apparently also a photographer for the Associated Press. It shows the trench after its exhumation in late August. As far as trees go, it's mixed planting all around. What helps here, perhaps, are the roads visible.

I decided by the long shadows crossing the trench that it ran roughly north-south. To be more precise, presuming the video was shot in the morning, it would be rotated about 1:00 when seen from above, the north end pointing a bit east and the south end further west. That means the photo is taken looking about due south, and it shows a track road curving just twenty feet away from the trench's south end and western edge. Another, more major road is visible in the background. By the directions established, it runs roughly east-west. Its south side anyway has a cut bank - shallow, but noticeable.

This implied road intersection, with a minor road curving west and then north off a major east-west route might be useful. I scanned on Google maps all three forested areas around Qawalish, especially Almliab and Alumblyab, for areas that match. The major road made it easy to decide. Almliab doesn't seem to have a match for it anywhere - its main road runs south and only minor roads branch off east and west. Nothing at the forest behind the checkpoint just south of town seemed a fit either.

But the Alumblyab tree farm west of town has one area that fits the criteria, and only one that announced itself to me. It's got an east-west road with a cut bank on both sides, discernable by the irregular shadow along the south edge. It has a road branching off north into an area with a possibly consistent clearing. There's a faint trench in the topography there - oriented about 1:00, its apparent bottom highlighted in brown. I put the grave area in red (it seems to run into more level ground at the south end), and the rough angle of view and camera position in aqua.
The main road here is right at the forest's southern edge, just off the main highway. The grave site is just a bit off that road, and only 20 feet from the trucks. That's consistent with known rebel body-stashing practices in the area - lazy.

The problem with the road is evident - the one shown runs roughly straight north, with a branch to the northwest only outside our field of view here. There's nothing curving south of the trench like the one seen. What I propose is that a new road was blazed, about as shown here with the tan tracks. Such a road makes total sense for access reasons, and it fits with the photo. To the right should be about where the two roads would intersect, and we may see this here. The whokle area is flat and uncertain, covered with piles of earth from the dig, but with no trees. I think I see signs between the trees of that north road going back a bit, but that's not really certain.

Trying to match the trees has confused me, but my latest look suggests a view centered about due south might fit with the photo as far as where trees are nearer and further away. Perspective can be tricky at times like this.

Although compound uncertainties exist, I think this is the most likely single location, and worth venturing. The significance is this: the excavation, by several sources, happened at a forest/scouting camp behind a government check-point near al-Qawalish (see here). The location behind the check-point, where locals say they were detained and saw people beaten or killed, was the best clue this was the government's work. Well, that and the supposed ID match with several alleged detainees.

But the scouting camp is at Almliab, southeast of town, and this patch is at Alumblyab, to the southwest. There were no government facilities listed for this forest, and likely little or no access control. Anyone could have dumped bodies there, maybe even in June. Asof July, the rebels were the only ones in a good position to dump anyone anywhere.

If I'm right and there's a disconnect still, with confusion over the locale being perpetuated, it's worth asking why.

Tuesday, August 30, 2011

"The Qala'a Massacre" {masterlist}

Or More Accurately: The Qawalish Tree Farm Massacre
August 9, 2011

last update Sept 19

Note Aug 16: I just changed the title, only by adding quote marks and a by-line. The Qala'a massacre is the name I chose for this slaughter of 30-34 civilians, but also the name chosen by Shabbab Libya the same day when asking for a probe. As shown below, however, it's located much closer to Qawalish, the significance of which is accidentally explained up front. Thus I quote them on the more famous "official" title of what I'll otherwise call the Qawalish tree farm massacre.


Note August 20: I've moved the original discussion to its own dedicated post, for reference only. This post will eventually summarize the findings of this investigation and provide links to the sub-posts that cover certain aspects.


The links so far for the Qawalish tree farm massacre,
one of the most underreported war crimes of the Libyan war:

Video Postings and Posters - information on the different versions of the single video we have so far, most citing it as another Gaddafi massacre. Patterns of information management, damage control, unlikely claims of familial knowledge, and possible conspiracy emerge.

The Victims - 34 people cut off from life, all - or most - clearly civilian. Here I give each a number and a scan for clues. Who were they and who killed them? Why are so many local villagers black and dressed in sporty "mercenary"clothes? And why do some wear army fatigues?

Mass Grave Locale - A fascinating confusion of names (al-Mal'ab, Almliab, Alumblyab), satellite imagery, desert and tree farms, Gaddafi forces previously reported hiding in one possible match, not in the other. Again, rebel sources aren't helping sort this out. Only this blog and one intrepid reader (so far) are.

The Victims, Exhumed - A great update on the September recovery and supposed identification of the victims, buried in as positioned on video, and then dug back out. The location is still vague, but about where I have been saying. There's lots of talk of just how and where Gaddafi's guys did it - they had mercenaries with tribal scars, and lots of people witnessed lots of things at that "scouts base." The coffins are displayed,one too many, with all the black victims apparently left unidentified. Hmmm...

Friday, August 19, 2011

The Qawalish Tree Farm Massacre: Video Postings and Posters

August 18, 2011 
last edits Aug 24

Below are all the online versions and postings of a single (so far) video of the "Qala'a massacre," aka the Qawalish Tree Farm Massacre. To save space, I won't embed them, just provide links and relevant textual information. Translations, where relevant, are per Google Translate.

Tripoli News Revolution
Aug 5, 6:50 am or 3:26 am (time zone?)
https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=244892632208062
Posted by: طرابلس أخبار الثورة [trans: Tripoli News Revolution]
Desc:
فيديوا حصري لن تصدقوا :: شهداء مدنين في القلعة قتلتهم آلة القذافي المجرمة [trans: Vidioa exclusive will not believe: the martyrs of civilians killed in the castle machine Gaddafi criminal]

This is the apparent original posting, large-format and high quality. On the internet, this is the closest point to the murderers (whether friends or in the captivity of friends). Anyone wanting to study this crime will want to refer to this. I wish I could figure out a way that actually works to save a copy, in case they pull it.

Comments: Mostly, "there is no power but from God," or some variant, is what most comments translate to. The only one that seems to add information, which I don't understand, is this:
Ghazi Mokni عباس الطبولي هاااااااااااااااااااااام جداااااااااااااااااااااااااا
اتصال هاتفي ثوار الزهراء : اكبر مخازن وورشة لتركيب وتجهيز 14.5 في المنطقة الغربية في منطقة غوط ابوساق بالزهراء الشارع الترابي المقابل لرحبة السوق سابقا ,,, وفي مزرعة منصور ضو ,,, والتي لم يتم قصفها حتى الان وللعلم هذا المكان الوحيد لدعم الكتائب بهذا النوع من السلاح في كامل المنطقة الغربية الان ,,, نأمل التبليغ عنه للاهمية في هذا اليوم بالذات. 06 08
August 6 at 4:55pm
Abbas Ghazi Mokni Tabola Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaam جداااااااااااااااااااااااااا
Telephone rebels Zahra: larger stores and a workshop for the installation and equipping of 14.5 Western Region in the Got Abussaq Balzhra street Turabi corresponding to the broad market previously, and in the farm Mansour Daou,,, and have not been bombed yet and this is understood, the only place to support the battalions of this type of arms in the entire western region now,,, we hope the importance of reporting him to this very day. 0608
August 6 at 4:55 pm
Further postings appear to be saved copies of degraded quality on Youtube, with posting dates only, not times.

- Massacre in Qalaa Libya, Video taken from Gaddafi Soldier
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wb9syDSnb4I
Posted by user CCTV prince, August 5. This one has decent resolution, and gives the link to Facebook above. No description.

Comments: Interesting. One accuses the poster of being a fake account.

- "MASSACRE IN QALAA LIBYA."
Posted by user ibnomar2005, Aug 5.
Good resolution. 

Comments: mixed

- "Civilians 34 from the city of Qalha executed by soldiers of Gaddafi."
Posted by user algelawy2009, August 5.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpiqwUPmIYE
Desc: [via Comments (algelawy2009)]
هولاء الشهداء اخططفوا من منطقة ظاهر القلعة وتم قتلهم قتل جماعي في منطقة مزرعة المليعب بظاهر القلعة بالقرب من بوابة االسوادنة من قبل كتايب المجرم القدافي لعنة الله عليه والله المستعان
[trans: Hola Akhttafoa martyrs from the area of ​​the castle was killed by apparent mass murder in the farm Alumblyab apparent meaning of the castle near the gate of Aalsoadna by Ktaib criminal Kadhafi to curse God and God used him]

Comments: Two of six, in Arabic, translated only:
frombenghazi1 1 week ago
Note if the method of killing everyone in the same manner in which the execution of soldiers who refused to shoot handcuffed hands and legs, and I personally think they were prisoners of God's mercy and accept them and take revenge from Chdeddae of Gaddafi and his dogs and the evil die Mitte Amiyeyeeyeeyean Aallah. There is no power but from God Almighty Alaa know that honoring the dead to bury them is minimum and Akhro
libyan1dream 2 days ago
I heard they were killed by rebels
Ironically, two ways of saying the same thing. The binding and blindfolding, if not the intact skulls, is reminiscent of the rebel's early al Baida massacre of February, which they transparently blamed on the government.

Algelawy might mean something about al-Galaa, another way of saying al-Qala'a, the town these victims are said to be from. Indeed, one comment at Misratapost's posting (see below) is from Algelawy2009, adding more than at their own posting.
It is in Algalah in the area called” Almlaeb” I am from Algalah and I know this area very well because i recognized the first face of the first body in the queue and it is my uncle and his name Emahmed Soliman and his son next to him and they kidnapped since 4 months ago and other people they recognized the some bodies by their clothes they are clear some of them are children as he say the photographer and all the family of these bodies think they are in the prison of Gadafi
Hmmm... of all the people there, he's sure just from this the notable old man, and the notable boy beside him, with the hole in his head, are father and son, and his own uncle and cousin? Not quite buying it. 

- "Al-Gala massacre, 34 men executed including one child."
Posted by user misratapost, August 5.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8iLkPQiv4Y
Desc: [English]
MUAMMAR Gaddafi's forces have committed "crimes against humanity and war crimes on a large scale" Torture, mass executions , using humans as shields and banned cluster bombs, rape...
Here is another evidence from the town of Al-Gala -- Libya

This one has subtitles - # refers to speaking parties, explained at the main post:
1:25 - "34 bodies." [#3, faint, saying more than this]
1:34 - "This is the fate of rats." [#3, clearly saying more than this]
1:48 - [#3 question, no subtitle]
1:52 - "This is the fate of the dirty rats - dogs." [#1, cameraman]
1:56 - "They smell very ill." [#3]
2:04 - "See the dogs, see the dogs." [#1, spits]
2:09 - "This is the fate of rats." [#1]
2:11 - "This is a child. Show the child." [#3]
2:20 - "This is the fate of the dirty rats. These are old men." [#3. voice muffled by jacket]
2:46 - "See the rats." [#3]
3:07 - "This is a child. Dig a grave for him." [#1]
3:13 - "This is from Pakistan? No. I thought so. Dig a hole for him." [#2, apparently, and #1 speaking]
Comments: All apparently allowed, 65 total, and some critical thoughts, mostly from user AntinaziHippy, are worth a read. Algelawy's is above.

- [Raw Libya Libye ليبيا] Découverte d'un charnier dans les montagnes Nefusa
[Why French? Trans: Discovery of a mass grave in the mountains Nefusa]
Posted by ImazighenLibya, Feb 5.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLcBBa7zrXA
desc: Video found in the mobile phone of a Gaddafi militiaman recently captured in the Nefusa mountains. Crimes de guerres des milices de Gadafi. Découverte d'un charnier dans les alentours de la ville de Al-Qalaa, dans les montagnes Nefusa en Libye. War crimes of Gaddafi's militias. Discovery of a mass grave on the outskirts of the city of Al-Qalaa in the Nefusa mountains in west Libya. جرائم الحرب التي ترتكبها ميليشيات القذافي. اكتشاف مقبرة جماعية في ضواحي مدينة القلعة في جبل نفوسة بليبيا.

Comments:
How did they die? I dont see any blood or bulletholes???
@Robinfindlay the video comes from the mobile phone of one militiaman captured recently in the Nefusa mountains. In Arabic the voice in the background commenting, at 1.55 says "this is the fate that awaits the rats" "look at these dogs" "let the worms eat their bodies, dogs" "these are rats and dogs" etc. Investigation is pending to determine date, names of militiamen involved in this mass killing, etc.
ImazighenLibya 1 week ago

These bodies can't be old. They are not bloated or rotting. This video seems odd. Any more info on it?
kcf6969 1 week ago
@kcf6969 Investigation still pending
ImazighenLibya 1 week ago
- عصابات المجرم الطاغية يعدمون مواطنين عزل فى القلعة
[title trans: Criminal gangs tyrant executed unarmed at the castle]
posted by user 17022011libya, Aug 5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vf1woUuGfzo
desc: same as title
Comments: 6, Arabic, Anti-Gaddafi boring depressing stupid

- "Footage of Gaddafi forces murdering farmers in Al-Qala, Nafusa Mountains."
Posted by user Libyanym, August 6.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvOMMbIEixk
Desc:
Farmers who stayed behind to tend to their animals after their families fled to Tunisia were arrested by Gaddafi forces on June 2, 2011.

This video is the footage of their corpses after their arrest, torture, and murder.

Families of these farmers are still being informed of their death. Investigations into the details of this horrific incident are still underway. It has been confirmed that one of the farmers was 85 years old.

The brutality of the Gaddafi regime knows no bounds, these are viscous crimes against humanity. Gaddafi terrorizes innocent civilians and continues to do so. The Libyan people call for their basic human rights and that Gaddafi be brought to justice.
On the bolded - On day two of this story being known, multiple "invetigations" were still "under way?" Why hadn't they finished yet?

- Battle for Libya: Rebels #Feb17 - the demonic animals kill 34 people
Then Libya S.O.S. re-post, August 7, on their blog.
http://libyasos.blogspot.com/2011/08/battle-for-libya-rebels-fab17-demonic.html
It's edited with a green pro-Gaddafi stamp, worse quality than usual. The text refers to a previous deletion.
Rebels crime in the Western Mountain at Al Qala'a area! They killed all the civilians from Almeshashia tribe who refused to join them! Propaganda machine delete this video


- Unknown, and ImazighenLibya
Posted on Youtube by unknown, apparently the Libya S.O.S., presumably August 6.
As Peet73 alerted me:
There was a hint from the facebook-group "British Civilians for Peace in Libya" on Saturday concerning a new atrocity video from the Nafusa Mountains. But it was immediatly deleted on Youtube before I had oportunity to watch it.
He later provided the "link posted by the Facebook administrator of BCfPL on aug. 6, 12:13 p.m."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELxbUXs03OI&feature=youtu.be
Indeed, it says it's no longer available "due to a copyright claim by ImazighenLibya."

Hmmm... Tripoli News Revolution posted it first. Or did they? ImazighenLibya's copy is inferior quality, not the original clearly. And they only called foul on a posting that put a different spin on the video. But so long as the posting context agreed, as IL's copy did, it was free to share. This plus the terse "investigation pending" comments suggest this person is a self-appointed guardian of the secrets of this video. Is it Youtube's policy to honor such a gripe? Or did they simply get hoodwinked into thinking it was?

As Peet73 suggests, a look at the user's channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/ImazighenLibya - is interesting. I figured Imazighen referred the Amazigh (or Berber) people of the area, said to be anti-Gaddafi and culturally repressed with their interesting symbol writing. I was right - some videos and the historical sidebar explain the peoples' history and amazingness. I bet "amazing" is even derived from Amazigh. But he's not so into everyone's racial pride, as Peet73 rightly said:
This channel is worth a closer look, it seems quite professional (who helps here?) but contains a lot of racist stuff. For example "corrupted African black tribes & mercenaries" are blamed to support Gaddafi in the historical overview on the left. 
The current top video doesn't help - Muammar Gaddafi speaking angrily, spliced with Zulu warriors (I presume, from the movie Zulu?) running into battle. There are many spooky videos hosted here of Nafusah mountain rabbles in Qawalish and around the area mopping up "mercenaries" from Africa, who, as Peet73 notes, "always wear uniforms."

Tuesday, August 16, 2011

The Qawalish Tree Farm Massacre: Original Investigation

August 9, 2011
last update Aug 20

Note Aug 20: I've split off this original, rambling post from what I want to be the main hub for numerous cleaner posts regarding this serious and mysterious crime. This is for reference, for anyone who wants to see how my invesigation started. Please see the original post for links to how it shaped up afterwards.

First, the Confusion (optional reading if you know of the Qawalish water basin massacre)
I recieved this comment yesterday from Peet73 at my post Rebel Atrocity Videos:
There was a hint from the facebook-group "British Civilians for Peace in Libya" on Saturday concerning a new atrocity video from the Nafusa Mountains. But it was immediatly deleted on Youtube before I had oportunity to watch it. Libya S.O.S. has a copy now:
http://libyasos.blogspot.com/2011/08/battle-for-libya-rebels-fab17-demonic.html
We can only presume (perhaps?) this is the same video being talked about and shown here. Either way, the video at that link is the main subject here, covered below. But first, the commentary added at the posting mentioned a "propaganda machine" that "delete[d] this video" because "they describe this like murder by Libyan Army BUT you can see on 0:23 there is not Libyan army!"

I'm not sure what this means. The whole video, that spot included, shows civilian victims only, going by clothes, and nothing shows whether it was the army or anyone else who killed them. Although ovbiously rebel forces are the natural suspect by a long shot.

It might be that the confusion is about the victims, not the killers - was this massacre of soldiers or civilians by the "machine's" narrative? Clearly this video shows the latter, but there have been many reports in recent weeks mentioning a "mass grave" of "Gaddafi loyalists" who were also, apparently, soldiers.

But this isn't news, really. I happened to catch a Russia Today broadcast that I thought might be a hit. The re-post I saw was from July 26, but in fact, it's from July 22, and the anchor spoke with Sukat Chandan of British Civilians for Peace, who’d been, for the last couple of days, re-breaking a story from a week or so earlier. The anchor's understanding was of:
Mass grave of alleged pro-Gaddafi soldiers has been discovered in a rebel-controlled area of the country, according to British newspaper the Telegraph. The location was swiftly bulldozed after the discovery, suggesting an attempt to cover up the killings. The bodies were reportedly mutiliated, adding to recent concerns of human rights abuses by Libyan rebels.
This sounds a bit like the Qawalish massacre first revealed by its discover, C.J. Chivers, on about July 12 (undated). The grave, while improper, wasn't very massive - five dead soldiers dumped in a deep water basin, one buried under an olive tree next to it. I wrote about this on June 21, having caught it a couple of days late. Chandan spoke to Russia Today the next day so, for all I know, I was his source.

But alas, I was already looking for a Telegraph story from that time, and I only now am aware of it. It ran on July 20 and is worth a read:
The headless corpse, the mass grave and worrying questions about Libya's rebel army 
The five corpses floated disfigured and bloating in the murky bottom of the water tank. Wearing green soldiers' uniforms, the men lay belly down, decomposing in the putrid water.
Actually it sounds like exactly the same massacre. The body Chivers said "appeared to have been beheaded" was “cleanly decapitated.” The other with "his pants bunched down around his ankles" is confirmed with "the trousers of another had been ripped down to his ankles, a way of humiliating a dead enemy." There is a photograph attached to the article of some men standing around looking, with only one of the victim’s hands visible in the foreground. There are some other additions I'll have to update my post with. I had no idea they beat me to it by a day! And like Chivers but unlike me, they were there and seeing it first-hand.

But it's not the same as what we're looking at here. I hope someone thought there was confusion, or else that was all a waste and a distraction.

However, Peet cites Saturday, August 6 I presume, for this video mention by Chandan's crew, and feels what Libya SOS has - posted Sunday the 7th and noting a deletion - is or might be the same. So again there might be a connection worth finding there, but I didn't find it. Their Facebook page didn't let me see wall posts older than yesterday, and I don't know where else it would be. If anyone reading can help me find more info on this new video, I’d be happy to hear it.

The New Video
All I have so far is what it shows and what Libya SOS added, aside from an unrelated but interesting Fox News article:
SUNDAY, AUGUST 7, 2011
Battle for Libya: Rebels #Feb17 - the demonic animals kill 34 people

WHO CAN STOP THE TRUTH!
Rebels crime in the Western Mountain at Al Qala'a area! They killed all the civilians from Almeshashia tribe who refused to join them! Propaganda machine delete this video - becoouse they describe this like murder by Libyan Army BUT you can see on 0:23 there is not Libyan army! They will not stop TRUTH - never!
It’s hosted through Youtube in the unusual Libya SOS way, where I cannot find it on Youtube, cannot save a copy, and cannot embed it here, since the video ID code isn't displayed. It was there both before and after my work shift, but since its alleged previous postings have vanished, I saved a lot of stills. Here is the title screen, in Arabic, using “Indian numbers” to indicate 34 victims.

I can't vouch for that number. Some spots aren't too clear, but I was fairly thorough, and counted exactly 30. It's not less than that, possibly a bit higher. The still at left gives an idea of the layout. It looks like someone made a slight effort to dig a trench. Very slight. There's certainly nothing proper about these burials.

For what it's worth, I think this is filmed early morning, not late afternoon. By their long shadows and the few observers viewed, this is filmed by armed rebels.

I suspect these victims were not killed here. The lack of visible blood anywhere, and the uneven dispositions of those killed - some bound, some not, for example - and the haphazard arrangement suggests they were killed in various places around Qala'a or Yefren, and then dumped here.

The victims are varied, including young and old, fit and fat, apparently  all male, but I'm no expert on Libyan attire enough to venture the few I'm not so sure about. Three victims of special interest are clustered at the near end in the above view.

In fact, the odd one with his pants half-down I focused on at right. If pants down is an insult, what's this? A half-insult, one half-revoked by someone later on, or an accident in dumping? We may never know. He seems to be bound, hands behind his back. As for his face, it's just a dark blur. Is this some burning-related torture, a dark rag, some added blur for decency, or what? I'm not sure. Several of the faces seem strangely blurry, in fact.

It's a bit the same but less so with the apparent old man at left. We can see his hair and short beard are white, his head mostly bald. His hands seem to be bound behind his back, but how exactly he was killed isn't clear. His face seems strangely yellow, even for being covered in the yellow soil. It's probably nothing but the dirt, however.

Another victim looks a bit small to me - quite likely a boy aged about fourteen. He's one of the few with an injury that's obvious at this resolution: a solid hole in the top of his skull, as clearly visible at right. Brain matter seems to be visible inside. A couple of the others look a bit small, perhaps not full-grown. But there don't seem to be any small children present.

Farther down are about a dozen fighting age men in more sporty clothing. Quite a few are clearly black men, and this stretch is more likely to be civilian loyalist fighters of some sort. Others are in traditional gowns and such. You can fight in those. At the end is at least one fairly obese person, and someone halfway covered with what looks like a heavy thin mattress. All but a few are laid face-down.

Location, Location, Location...
With no detailed sources available, we can't be certain this even happened when and where it's said to have. But short of certainty, I can say the topography is a nice fit. The Qala'a area has gentle but tight ridges lined with trees, sandy soil in narrow valleys between. This may be at the narrow end of any of these couple dozen small gullies. It might be possible to identify an exact spot, but I won't bet my precious time on finding out.

As I said above, I suspect the rebels filmed this themselves, and posted it online. Why? Did they think their own discovery on video would make it possible to claim loyalist forces were responsible? Was it just one rebel faction running across the work of an allied network? What was their motive for filming it? Political or ethical? We may never know.

Do they perhaps film these things to cause terror among those whose neighborhoods they'll be in next? Perhaps. Are we the water carriers for this operation? Do they even watch Youtube closely in Qala'a and Yefren? If they do, will they run away or just get more pissed off and arm themselves to drive out the vermin? Can even NATO get away with bombing Libyan civilians defending themselves from eggregious human rights abuses like this seems to be?

I look forward to seeing where this story goes.

Where its Gone
August 10: Peet73 alerts me in a comment below that there is a new postings, and a Googlesearch gave me another. The resolution of both seems a bit better, they're able to be saved my way, and they're posted by rebel-affiliated accounts. which I can save.

And, as both Peet73 and a Google search revealed, another rebel group/site, Shabbab Libya (Libyan youth) is calling for an investigation! It's the different twist they add that makes that make sense.
Libyan Organizations demand the investigation of Nafusa town massacre Al-Qala’a, Nafusa Mountains, Libya, 9th of August 2011 – Following the discovery of video footage stored in mobile phones of captured Gaddafi regime troops, local Nafusa Mountain associations, ShababLibya, The Libyan Youth Movement and The Libyan Link, call on the Libyan National Transitional Council to shed light on the massacre of over thirty men and children in the area of Al-Qala’a, Nafusa Mountains.

The footage found on captured Gaddafi loyalist mobile phones shows the corpses of more than thirty people, local men and boys, lying face down, hands tied and visibly executed. According to some sources, the men and boys were arrested by Gaddafi Regime troops on June the 2nd 2011. The bodies may be located in the Al-Mal’ab Forest area, however, this location is heavily mined and it is impossible to search. It is imperative to allow for the families of the victims to retrieve their loved ones so that they may be given a burial according to Islamic practices.

The broad network of Libyan associations including the Al-Qala’a Civil committee and the families of the victims, supported by Libyan organisations abroad demand that the Libyan National Transitional Council (NTC) activate all possible channels to initiate investigations of war crimes and Human right’s abuses. In parallel, the network of Libyan associations requests assistance for the demining of this area, to allow for the recovery of the bodies.
So now it was allegedly filmed by Gaddafi forces and therefore, by implication, carried out by them. They have some specifics that are hard to double-check - an abduction date and some names, making them seem to know what they're talking about. And perhaps it's so.

I'm glad they get the same impression the ones filming are sympathetic to the crime. I thought they seemed like rebels, but I still haven't had the time to study closely, and I myself can only read so much from this kind of evidence. Nonetheless, I'm working on it, and have some analysis half-done. I will wait to post it until after I finish my new video, hopefully tonight.

In the meantime, what I could use is anyone able to provide a transcript of what the observers are saying. Arabic-speakers? The best is an Arabic transcription of actual words spoken, then translated and available for reference. One valuable clue as to who's filming can be heard at 2:15, about seven seconds after the cameraman seems to spit in disgust: the man behind him in a camo jacket mentions "Muammar Gaddafi," I think. In what context?

Aug 11:Video Timing:
MUAMMAR Gaddafi's forces have committed "crimes against humanity and war crimes on a large scale" Torture, mass executions , using humans as shields and banned cluster bombs, rape...
Here is another evidence from the town of Al-Gala -- Libya
Farmers who stayed behind to tend to their animals after their families fled to Tunisia were arrested by Gaddafi forces on June 2, 2011.

This video is the footage of their corpses after their arrest, torture, and murder.

Families of these farmers are still being informed of their death. Investigations into the details of this horrific incident are still underway. It has been confirmed that one of the farmers was 85 years old.

The brutality of the Gaddafi regime knows no bounds, these are viscous crimes against humanity. Gaddafi terrorizes innocent civilians and continues to do so. The Libyan people call for their basic human rights and that Gaddafi be brought to justice.
Then Libya S.O.S. re-post, August 7, referring to previous deletions. Which posting was pulled? That's not clear. IF there was a version up first that Libya S.O.S. and the British Civilians saw in the context of a rebel crime, that would be quite relevant. Conversely, if the rebels put it up first, it would go a ways towards illustrating their case - that this video was just now discovered by their forces. As it stands, it seems like the rebel version went up first.

Does that mean real Gaddafi soldiers filmed this? Not necessarily. If so, does that mean they did it? Not necessarily. If they did, does that suggest a government order? No. Would it be right to demand the overthrowof the Johnson regime following the My Lai massacre? Probably not. We have as possibilities:
1) crimes against humanity by Gaddafi, alleged for the millionth time.
2) the actions of a rogue unit, a side-effect of loss of command and control, what happens when the central authority is removed as NATO's tried to do.
3) a rebel atrocity, like the others we know of in that immediate region.

Asking for an investigation: This is something I don't recall seeing rebels do before. The truth is always clear, and the solution is always more weapons and help getting rid of Gaddafi. Would a TNC probe would mean a damn thing as far as discovering the truth? Or just provide confirmaton with some "authority?" The request does however seem to show their openness to an "investigation" as opposed to their earlier bulldozer work. They fear the truth, I suspect, hence the show of not seeming to fear it.

The MO: Feels like Islamist-tinged, cocky, rebel work to me. Even the cartoon ruler all rebels know doesn't fit the bill. These are all males 12 and up, when everyone knows Gaddafi is either indiscriminate, or goes for women and small children first.

The Location: I think I was wrong to be so sure that area is a match with Qala'a. User "Antinazi Hippy" questions the location in comments at Misratapost's posting. He cites a topography mismatch, and suggests it was actually filmed in Zlitan, making all three postings - all claiming specific knowledge of the circumstances - wrong. That's a hefty thing to propose, but as I said, I'm not seeing it like I did at first. Basically that was "there's trees and a gully." But it's pretty flat, there's no gully really, just the ditch. And the trees just go on in all directions, like they do in very few spots around Qala'a. Or so it seems now. Will come back with images and semi-final thoughts.

Also, the cameraman's shadow stretching across the trench makes clear the trench itself runs roughly north-south, whatever clue that is. By this, the trees - bushy evergreens - are present in large numbers in all four cardinal directions. Hundreds. The dots around al Qala'a are single trees that can be counted in the dozens at most in any one patch. Right? Will look closer ...

The party filming is no more than four, I'm pretty sure. The cameraman has a rifle, and a gaurd standing back is armed. The other two, not clearly armed. I'll be back with stills and thoughts. The best clues will be in the audio track - what the two men who speak say, when, and how. Until find a friendly Arabic translator, I have nothing but the words at the bottom of the screen of misratapost's posting. I'll be back with those and anything else I find in the meantime.

Aug 12:  The layout/scenery, best views I could find, rotated to upright. Directions given are if this is sunrise. If not, it's sunset and all directions are reversed.

So it's not really flat - there's a decent slope to the west/northwest, or else the trees there are all slanted. It's not as obvious in the west view, but the trees further back are progressively higher. (We don't ever get a view of due east, or into the sun, that I caught.) Too many trees. I don't think it's Qalaa, immediate area. Looking closer at the Google maps imagery, the slopes there are steeper, and terraced in a funky way I don't see here. An image search shows photos of imposing slopes, desert soil, rocks, dust, few trees. The soil between them blows and drifts like dunes. Here we have a veritable forest, leaves from something like olive trees, wispy dry grass (visible in the better views I'm seeing), a cover of greenish grass in spots.  There could be lichens or moss in there somewhere, in an extra-shady spot.

Other things I'll need to figure out - what was going on in early June and in the time since. I need a feel for the temporal topography as well.

More video links, and a possible original:

"MASSACRE IN QALAA LIBYA." Posted by ibnomar2005, Aug 5. This one may have the best resolution yet. 
An original link from Facebook, a large format video posted in HQ on August 5 at 6:50 am. Definitely a tie or a winner for best clarity, apparent original. I'm using this for future screen grabs, and will see about saving a copy.
---

Aug 13: A clearer view of the victim with his pants down. It's not obvious if his arm is really tweaked back, missing, or what. The dark patch beneath him is I think a shadow of a rock ledge there. He's clearly blindfolded here, it just slipped out of place.

The "Gaddafi soldiers" on video:

Soldier #1 walks up, seen in shadow, armed and filming. The smaller inset shows the shape of his camera - not an iphone. #2 and #3 walk up behind, in that order I think, pass to his left and cross the trench. #4 stays behind standing guard.
#2 manages to avoid being filmed really, crossing back to #1's side as he turns the camera their way (see inset). He's wearing dark jeans, a light civilian shirt, and sandals. He makes an interesting comment (see below).

# 3 wears sandals as well, but a military jacket. His face is covered (to avoid smelling, or to avoid being seen?) but he seems fairly young, and seems to be filming on a smaller device. I'm not an expert on the different camo styles, weapons, etc. typically used by different parties. Do Gaddafi soldiers wear sandals? I suppose they could.

#4, standing off to the north,  wears a striped shirt. He's got a chubby face, looks black (or is that just the shade? He doesn't seem any more professional in stance or attire than the others. He also seems to be recording the scene, making me guess that #2 is possibly doing the same.

Subtitles via Misratapost - no guarantee it's what's actually said. Subtitles in quotes, speaking party in [square brackets].
1:25 - "34 bodies." [#3, faint, saying more than this]
1:34 - "This is the fate of rats." [#3, clearly saying more than this]
1:48 - [#3 question, no subtitle]
1:52 - "This is the fate of the dirty rats - dogs." [#1, cameraman]
1:56 - "They smell very ill." [#3]
2:04 - "See the dogs, see the dogs." [#1, spits]
2:09 - "This is the fate of rats." [#1]
2:11 - "This is a child. Show the child." [#3, where he says something just like "Muammar Gaddafi," with a slight "eh" at the end. is there a way of saying "show the child" that sounds like that?]
2:20 - "This is the fate of the dirty rats. These are old men." [#3. voice muffled by jacket]
2:46 - "See the rats." [#3]
3:07 - "This is a child. Dig a grave for him." [#1]
3:13 - "This is from Pakistan? No. I thought so. Dig a hole for him." [#2, apparently, and #1 speaking]
The last line sounds like what's spoken, the Pakistan part anyway. It's an odd side-track, but I presume they're referring to the boy with the hole in his head, wearing the outfit I think is called a shalwar kameez, like several others are. It's popular in Pakistan, and wherever conservative Muslims live. The guy in jeans just didn't get it. Is he even Libyan?

The "fate of rats" part is repeated, and the sound is about the same each time the cameraman says it: a bit like "muslaida jirdat." This isn't really impressive I suppose, but Google translate lets your hear various translated words. What it gives me for rats isn't in there. Nor the words for rodents, dogs, fate, destiny, end, death - none of them is a match. What am I doing wrong, I wonder? Getting too literal?
---
Aug 14: I've been over and over the area in Google maps, and still can't find a good match. It's hard to be sure, but the area in question is only a nook of hospitability a few miles wide, surrounded by tangled tectonic masses that just look bizarre - plus barren and treeless - from above. For anyone who wants to help, here again is the satellite imagery you can zoom way in on. If the spot can be found there, I want to know.

Since I've heard Zlitan mentioned as an alternate, I tried to look there, but Google maps imagery is clouded over in that spot. It could provide some matches if visible, but I was also pulled to the area just north of Dafiniya, a few miles east of there as an area that makes sense. Either would put the heat on Misrata rebels instead of Zintan/Nafusah ones.

We also have the supposed men making at least three recordings of the scene. They're said to speak like Gaddafi soldiers, calling the dead "dogs" and "rats." If that's a well-known thing they're supposed to do, wouldn't that make it a well-known thing to do if you were trying to act like gov't soldiers? I'm pretty sure I've caught rebels impersonating wicked soldiers in a few fake videos before. They act stupidly brutal, possibly drunk, demanding allegiance to Gaddafi, extracted with fake-slap and fake-kick force, and insulting the overly-cowed and helpless-looking people at every chance.  Apparently Arabs don't do subtlety very well.

This ... if fake it's more subtle. Maybe even the Pakistan line was designed to show how ignorant of Islam the regime's western-dressed soldiers and mercenaries really are.  But that's a ways ahead of where we're at.

And some points from Peet73:
Some remarks by the moment: There maybe a dirt track passing by in north and east (the guy with the AK47 at 0:23 stands perhaps in the middle of that track)
Moreover the garbage gives a hint on a nearby road or frequently used track, that's quite typical for north african roadsides.
I think a plane is passing by (starting at 0:40). But this last point will not be very helpfull according to the number of NATO sorties.
---
Aug 15, and it’s coming together:
 We have a location! Thanks again to Peet 73, we have a complete possible fit just outside the area I was searching. As he just explained in comments below, the Arabic comments beneath the posting by algelawy2009 gives a location of مزرعة المليعب which translates "the farm Alumblyab" (using Google translate, and I double-checked, it cites an "apparent mass murder in the farm Alumblyab"). This in turn turns up a match he found on Wikimapia, which shows a dense patch of trees in the desert conveniently spelled-out as the Amlumblyab forest. The term "farm" being used is likely from this being a tree farm, not a real forest. The flat-packed, rutted, trenched, randomly worked-looking soil here fits the idea and what I see in the video. It all clicks. For reasons I'll explain later, I suspect it was near the edge of the "forest."

It’s outside the immediate area I was searching, but not by much. It’s about 10 miles south-southwest of the Yefren nook, a short truck ride, and closer yet to other places. Like al-Gawalish/Qawalish; no more than three miles down the road is the town where rebels are known to stash their dead just outside of town. In fact, it's edge probably no more than five miles, and perhaps just a few hundred yards, from where Mr. Chivers made his chilling discovery. (I'm trying to pin that area down now, separately). But calling this the "Qawalish tree farm massacre” just doesn’t have the right ring, for some reason. So it's in the "Qala'a area," in a vaguely-named forest, and the reason will become clear below.

For what it's worth, there is another tree farm area just barely south of Qawalish that could fit the video, if not the named locale, just as well. The distiction of which tree farm it was is important. The one named in the recent Shabbab Libya PR gives a heavily-mined "Al-Mal’ab Forest area," which is ... similar. And earlier, they had mentioned possibly the same area (as Peet73 again noticed), with a spelling somewhere between the two that I now prefer - as a place where government force massed for evil.

In a June 3 press release, the kids announced the opening of a supply line to Yefren and al-Qala’a from Az Zintan, to bring “humanitarian” supplies to this front line, and asking for NATO air support to protect it. They also gave specific co-ordinates of government forces that "threatened [...] the region of Yefren and the Nafusa mountains." Among the precise spots "threatening" (otherwise, defending) Qala'a and its civilians was "Almliab forest (VERY IMPORTANT)," which housed a "large force including at least 4 tanks, grad, ammunition, personnel, etc. It is the main army supply to the area (substation) for forces heading west." Beyond this, they assured NATO that "command and control is highly suspected to be in one or more of the 4 buildings given."

This makes enough sense, using the sparse tree cover available, at a government facility no less, to keep their weapons relatively safe from bombing. This is surely what the rebel "investigation" will find, and the inference will be clear enough to them, and perhaps most people, by the time they put it together. So we can start considering it early, here's the narrative:

Gaddafi forces based in the Almliab tree-farm-base take 34 captives from the town in early June, kill them wherever and for whatever reason, and then dump their bodies in this ditch within their forest, unburied, left in the open. They then come back after some time has passed, and film themselves gloating over their prey. The soldiers come, all four of them, mostly in civilian clothes and sandals, and one stands guard at the north end of the trench, in their own forest-base.

This happened perhaps in early June, perhaps July or August. The whole area's been under rebel control since mid-July. But they kept the video to themselves, making one wonder what it was for, until whenever the rebels captured the same soldiers. Only then, possibly as they finally took the forest, that this pointless admission video was shown to the world. Rebel sleuths in Benghazi will put two and two together, and prove they're a real government who can investigate things.

Case solved, right?
---
Aug 16: Another Twist:
 I hate to re-inject complexity, but the locale is not so clear. We have wooded areas near the Qala'a / Qawalish area - one identified "Alumblyab Forest" per Wikimapia, and a "farm" of the same name given as the location on one video. We also have an "Al-Mal’ab forest" given, and an earlier reference to "Almliab scouting camp and agriculture centre." Considering tree farm covers the farm/forest difference, one would presume the name differences, at least between the two that have the 'm' and 'l' in the same order - are irrelevant. It's probably the same place - the tree farm southwest of Qawalish.

However, the PR citing Almliab had coordinates I decided to double-check using Earth Tools. I used their number for the forest itself (31°58’38.03″N, 12°40’26.62″E), and the first of the four buildings listed (31°58’59.04″N, 12°40’30.84″E). I got it as close as I could (within tens of feet), and both came out right next to each other, but not on top of or even next to the area we were looking at. Rather, the dots came out about the same distance (3-4 miles) southeast of Qawalish, and further yet - about 20 miles by road - from Qala'a.

What's there, to my surprise, is another, third forested area - smaller and harder to spot than "the farm Alumblyab." This one is more elongated, less level, and more spread out, fanning over natural ridge tops. It's like a cross between the woods by Qala'a and the other tree farm. It's a good match for this video as well, though I'm not sure if it's a better or worse fit. I'll come back to that later. The red circles are approximately the spots they identifed with the coordinates. The northern one clearly means that small complex of small buildings next to the road.

This is a bit confusing, but here are the possibilities, not all mutually exclusive:
- There are two tree farm areas flanking Qawalish with very similar names - Almliab and Alumblyab.
Or:
- The places are considered the same, with one name, just in two sections five miles apart.
Or:
- Some other kind of mix-up.
And:
- The dumping was actually NOT in the forest the government reportedly used.
Or:
- It WAS where the June PR indicates, but the video posting got the name mixed up.
Or:
- Wikimapia had it wrong (who plugs this info in and updates it?)
Or:
- ?
---
Aug 17: Not much to add. I checked the pronunciation of "Show the child" in Google translate, and the "child" part sounds like "toffle," or in fact a bit like the "daffi" part of the "Gaddafi" I thought I heard. The first part isn't quite right, it's still uncanny in its similarity to the leader's name, but I'm not so sure this is the clue I thought before.

No plan yet to sort out just which tree farm this discovery was inside of. I'm leaving it for now as one or another of these wooded areas just south of Qawalish.

For what it's worth as a clue, there is a different type of tree visible, for only a frame or two, in only one direction - to the northeast as I have it, nearest "soldier" #4. I can't identify it yet. It doesn't look like an olive tree or a few others I considered. Anyone?

It might be nothing but some mixed plating, or the start of someone's orchard blending a bit into the edge of the evergreen factory, helping set the location. Does the lighting pattern suggest the area in that direction is more open, with smaller trees? I think it might.