August 9, 2011
last update Aug 20
Note Aug 20: I've split off this original, rambling post from what I want to be the main hub for numerous cleaner posts regarding this serious and mysterious crime. This is for reference, for anyone who wants to see how my invesigation started. Please see the original post for links to how it shaped up afterwards.
First, the Confusion (optional reading if you know of the Qawalish water basin massacre)
I recieved this comment yesterday from Peet73 at my post Rebel Atrocity Videos:
There was a hint from the facebook-group "British Civilians for Peace in Libya" on Saturday concerning a new atrocity video from the Nafusa Mountains. But it was immediatly deleted on Youtube before I had oportunity to watch it. Libya S.O.S. has a copy now:
http://libyasos.blogspot.com/2011/08/battle-for-libya-rebels-fab17-demonic.html
We can only presume (perhaps?) this is the same video being talked about and shown here. Either way, the video at that link is the main subject here, covered below. But first, the commentary added at the posting mentioned a "propaganda machine" that "delete[d] this video" because "they describe this like murder by Libyan Army BUT you can see on 0:23 there is not Libyan army!"
I'm not sure what this means. The whole video, that spot included, shows civilian victims only, going by clothes, and nothing shows whether it was the army or anyone else who killed them. Although ovbiously rebel forces are the natural suspect by a long shot.
It might be that the confusion is about the victims, not the killers - was this massacre of soldiers or civilians by the "machine's" narrative? Clearly this video shows the latter, but there have been many reports in recent weeks mentioning a "mass grave" of "Gaddafi loyalists" who were also, apparently, soldiers.
But this isn't news, really. I happened to catch a Russia Today broadcast that I thought might be a hit. The re-post I saw was from July 26, but in fact, it's from July 22, and the anchor spoke with Sukat Chandan of British Civilians for Peace, who’d been, for the last couple of days, re-breaking a story from a week or so earlier. The anchor's understanding was of:
Mass grave of alleged pro-Gaddafi soldiers has been discovered in a rebel-controlled area of the country, according to British newspaper the Telegraph. The location was swiftly bulldozed after the discovery, suggesting an attempt to cover up the killings. The bodies were reportedly mutiliated, adding to recent concerns of human rights abuses by Libyan rebels.
This sounds a bit like the Qawalish massacre first revealed by its discover, C.J. Chivers, on about July 12 (undated). The grave, while improper, wasn't very massive - five dead soldiers dumped in a deep water basin, one buried under an olive tree next to it. I wrote about this on June 21, having caught it a couple of days late. Chandan spoke to Russia Today the next day so, for all I know, I was his source.
But alas, I was already looking for a Telegraph story from that time, and I only now am aware of it. It ran on July 20 and is worth a read:
The headless corpse, the mass grave and worrying questions about Libya's rebel army
The five corpses floated disfigured and bloating in the murky bottom of the water tank. Wearing green soldiers' uniforms, the men lay belly down, decomposing in the putrid water.
Actually it sounds like exactly the same massacre. The body Chivers said "appeared to have been beheaded" was “cleanly decapitated.” The other with "his pants bunched down around his ankles" is confirmed with "the trousers of another had been ripped down to his ankles, a way of humiliating a dead enemy." There is a photograph attached to the article of some men standing around looking, with only one of the victim’s hands visible in the foreground. There are some other additions I'll have to update my post with. I had no idea they beat me to it by a day! And like Chivers but unlike me, they were there and seeing it first-hand.
But it's not the same as what we're looking at here. I hope someone thought there was confusion, or else that was all a waste and a distraction.
However, Peet cites Saturday, August 6 I presume, for this video mention by Chandan's crew, and feels what Libya SOS has - posted Sunday the 7th and noting a deletion - is or might be the same. So again there might be a connection worth finding there, but I didn't find it. Their Facebook page didn't let me see wall posts older than yesterday, and I don't know where else it would be. If anyone reading can help me find more info on this new video, I’d be happy to hear it.
The New Video
All I have so far is what it shows and what Libya SOS added, aside from an unrelated but interesting Fox News article:
SUNDAY, AUGUST 7, 2011
Battle for Libya: Rebels #Feb17 - the demonic animals kill 34 people
WHO CAN STOP THE TRUTH!
Rebels crime in the Western Mountain at Al Qala'a area! They killed all the civilians from Almeshashia tribe who refused to join them! Propaganda machine delete this video - becoouse they describe this like murder by Libyan Army BUT you can see on 0:23 there is not Libyan army! They will not stop TRUTH - never!
It’s hosted through Youtube in the unusual Libya SOS way, where I cannot find it on Youtube, cannot save a copy, and cannot embed it here, since the video ID code isn't displayed. It was there both before and after my work shift, but since its alleged previous postings have vanished, I saved a lot of stills. Here is the title screen, in Arabic, using “Indian numbers” to indicate 34 victims.
I can't vouch for that number. Some spots aren't too clear, but I was fairly thorough, and counted exactly 30. It's not less than that, possibly a bit higher. The still at left gives an idea of the layout. It looks like someone made a slight effort to dig a trench. Very slight. There's certainly nothing proper about these burials.
For what it's worth, I think this is filmed early morning, not late afternoon. By their long shadows and the few observers viewed, this is filmed by armed rebels.
I suspect these victims were not killed here. The lack of visible blood anywhere, and the uneven dispositions of those killed - some bound, some not, for example - and the haphazard arrangement suggests they were killed in various places around Qala'a or Yefren, and then dumped here.
The victims are varied, including young and old, fit and fat, apparently all male, but I'm no expert on Libyan attire enough to venture the few I'm not so sure about. Three victims of special interest are clustered at the near end in the above view.
In fact, the odd one with his pants half-down I focused on at right. If pants down is an insult, what's this? A half-insult, one half-revoked by someone later on, or an accident in dumping? We may never know. He seems to be bound, hands behind his back. As for his face, it's just a dark blur. Is this some burning-related torture, a dark rag, some added blur for decency, or what? I'm not sure. Several of the faces seem strangely blurry, in fact.
It's a bit the same but less so with the apparent old man at left. We can see his hair and short beard are white, his head mostly bald. His hands seem to be bound behind his back, but how exactly he was killed isn't clear. His face seems strangely yellow, even for being covered in the yellow soil. It's probably nothing but the dirt, however.
Another victim looks a bit small to me - quite likely a boy aged about fourteen. He's one of the few with an injury that's obvious at this resolution: a solid hole in the top of his skull, as clearly visible at right. Brain matter seems to be visible inside. A couple of the others look a bit small, perhaps not full-grown. But there don't seem to be any small children present.
Farther down are about a dozen fighting age men in more sporty clothing. Quite a few are clearly black men, and this stretch is more likely to be civilian loyalist fighters of some sort. Others are in traditional gowns and such. You can fight in those. At the end is at least one fairly obese person, and someone halfway covered with what looks like a heavy thin mattress. All but a few are laid face-down.
Location, Location, Location...
With no detailed sources available, we can't be certain this even happened when and where it's said to have. But short of certainty, I can say the topography is a nice fit. The Qala'a area has gentle but tight ridges lined with trees, sandy soil in narrow valleys between. This may be at the narrow end of any of these couple dozen small gullies. It might be possible to identify an exact spot, but I won't bet my precious time on finding out.
As I said above, I suspect the rebels filmed this themselves, and posted it online. Why? Did they think their own discovery on video would make it possible to claim loyalist forces were responsible? Was it just one rebel faction running across the work of an allied network? What was their motive for filming it? Political or ethical? We may never know.
Do they perhaps film these things to cause terror among those whose neighborhoods they'll be in next? Perhaps. Are we the water carriers for this operation? Do they even watch Youtube closely in Qala'a and Yefren? If they do, will they run away or just get more pissed off and arm themselves to drive out the vermin? Can even NATO get away with bombing Libyan civilians defending themselves from eggregious human rights abuses like this seems to be?
I look forward to seeing where this story goes.
Where its Gone
August 10: Peet73 alerts me in a comment below that there is a new postings, and a Googlesearch gave me another. The resolution of both seems a bit better, they're able to be saved my way, and they're posted by rebel-affiliated accounts. which I can save.
And, as both Peet73 and a Google search revealed, another rebel group/site, Shabbab Libya (Libyan youth) is calling for an investigation! It's the different twist they add that makes that make sense.
Libyan Organizations demand the investigation of Nafusa town massacre Al-Qala’a, Nafusa Mountains, Libya, 9th of August 2011 – Following the discovery of video footage stored in mobile phones of captured Gaddafi regime troops, local Nafusa Mountain associations, ShababLibya, The Libyan Youth Movement and The Libyan Link, call on the Libyan National Transitional Council to shed light on the massacre of over thirty men and children in the area of Al-Qala’a, Nafusa Mountains.
The footage found on captured Gaddafi loyalist mobile phones shows the corpses of more than thirty people, local men and boys, lying face down, hands tied and visibly executed. According to some sources, the men and boys were arrested by Gaddafi Regime troops on June the 2nd 2011. The bodies may be located in the Al-Mal’ab Forest area, however, this location is heavily mined and it is impossible to search. It is imperative to allow for the families of the victims to retrieve their loved ones so that they may be given a burial according to Islamic practices.
The broad network of Libyan associations including the Al-Qala’a Civil committee and the families of the victims, supported by Libyan organisations abroad demand that the Libyan National Transitional Council (NTC) activate all possible channels to initiate investigations of war crimes and Human right’s abuses. In parallel, the network of Libyan associations requests assistance for the demining of this area, to allow for the recovery of the bodies.
So now it was allegedly filmed by Gaddafi forces and therefore, by implication, carried out by them. They have some specifics that are hard to double-check - an abduction date and some names, making them seem to know what they're talking about. And perhaps it's so.
I'm glad they get the same impression the ones filming are sympathetic to the crime. I thought they seemed like rebels, but I still haven't had the time to study closely, and I myself can only read so much from this kind of evidence. Nonetheless, I'm working on it, and have some analysis half-done. I will wait to post it until after I finish my new video, hopefully tonight.
In the meantime, what I could use is anyone able to provide a transcript of what the observers are saying. Arabic-speakers? The best is an Arabic transcription of actual words spoken, then translated and available for reference. One valuable clue as to who's filming can be heard at 2:15, about seven seconds after the cameraman seems to spit in disgust: the man behind him in a camo jacket mentions "Muammar Gaddafi," I think. In what context?
Aug 11:Video Timing:
MUAMMAR Gaddafi's forces have committed "crimes against humanity and war crimes on a large scale" Torture, mass executions , using humans as shields and banned cluster bombs, rape...
Here is another evidence from the town of Al-Gala -- Libya
Then, "Footage of Gaddafi forces murdering farmers in Al-Qala, Nafusa Mountains." Posted by Libyanym, August 6. Adds details.
Farmers who stayed behind to tend to their animals after their families fled to Tunisia were arrested by Gaddafi forces on June 2, 2011.
This video is the footage of their corpses after their arrest, torture, and murder.
Families of these farmers are still being informed of their death. Investigations into the details of this horrific incident are still underway. It has been confirmed that one of the farmers was 85 years old.
The brutality of the Gaddafi regime knows no bounds, these are viscous crimes against humanity. Gaddafi terrorizes innocent civilians and continues to do so. The Libyan people call for their basic human rights and that Gaddafi be brought to justice.
Then Libya S.O.S. re-post, August 7, referring to previous deletions. Which posting was pulled? That's not clear. IF there was a version up first that Libya S.O.S. and the British Civilians saw in the context of a rebel crime, that would be quite relevant. Conversely, if the rebels put it up first, it would go a ways towards illustrating their case - that this video was just now discovered by their forces. As it stands, it seems like the rebel version went up first.
Does that mean real Gaddafi soldiers filmed this? Not necessarily. If so, does that mean they did it? Not necessarily. If they did, does that suggest a government order? No. Would it be right to demand the overthrowof the Johnson regime following the My Lai massacre? Probably not. We have as possibilities:
1) crimes against humanity by Gaddafi, alleged for the millionth time.
2) the actions of a rogue unit, a side-effect of loss of command and control, what happens when the central authority is removed as NATO's tried to do.
3) a rebel atrocity, like the others we know of in that immediate region.
Asking for an investigation: This is something I don't recall seeing rebels do before. The truth is always clear, and the solution is always more weapons and help getting rid of Gaddafi. Would a TNC probe would mean a damn thing as far as discovering the truth? Or just provide confirmaton with some "authority?" The request does however seem to show their openness to an "investigation" as opposed to their earlier bulldozer work. They fear the truth, I suspect, hence the show of not seeming to fear it.
The MO: Feels like Islamist-tinged, cocky, rebel work to me. Even the cartoon ruler all rebels know doesn't fit the bill. These are all males 12 and up, when everyone knows Gaddafi is either indiscriminate, or goes for women and small children first.
The Location: I think I was wrong to be so sure that area is a match with Qala'a. User "Antinazi Hippy" questions the location in comments at Misratapost's posting. He cites a topography mismatch, and suggests it was actually filmed in Zlitan, making all three postings - all claiming specific knowledge of the circumstances - wrong. That's a hefty thing to propose, but as I said, I'm not seeing it like I did at first. Basically that was "there's trees and a gully." But it's pretty flat, there's no gully really, just the ditch. And the trees just go on in all directions, like they do in very few spots around Qala'a. Or so it seems now. Will come back with images and semi-final thoughts.
Also, the cameraman's shadow stretching across the trench makes clear the trench itself runs roughly north-south, whatever clue that is. By this, the trees - bushy evergreens - are present in large numbers in all four cardinal directions. Hundreds. The dots around al Qala'a are single trees that can be counted in the dozens at most in any one patch. Right? Will look closer ...
The party filming is no more than four, I'm pretty sure. The cameraman has a rifle, and a gaurd standing back is armed. The other two, not clearly armed. I'll be back with stills and thoughts. The best clues will be in the audio track - what the two men who speak say, when, and how. Until find a friendly Arabic translator, I have nothing but the words at the bottom of the screen of misratapost's posting. I'll be back with those and anything else I find in the meantime.
Aug 12: The layout/scenery, best views I could find, rotated to upright. Directions given are if this is sunrise. If not, it's sunset and all directions are reversed.
So it's not really flat - there's a decent slope to the west/northwest, or else the trees there are all slanted. It's not as obvious in the west view, but the trees further back are progressively higher. (We don't ever get a view of due east, or into the sun, that I caught.) Too many trees. I don't think it's Qalaa, immediate area. Looking closer at the Google maps imagery, the slopes there are steeper, and terraced in a funky way I don't see here. An image search shows photos of imposing slopes, desert soil, rocks, dust, few trees. The soil between them blows and drifts like dunes. Here we have a veritable forest, leaves from something like olive trees, wispy dry grass (visible in the better views I'm seeing), a cover of greenish grass in spots. There could be lichens or moss in there somewhere, in an extra-shady spot.
Other things I'll need to figure out - what was going on in early June and in the time since. I need a feel for the temporal topography as well.
More video links, and a possible original:
"Civilians 34 from the city of Qalha executed by soldiers of Gaddafi." Posted by user algelawy2009, August 5.
"MASSACRE IN QALAA LIBYA." Posted by ibnomar2005, Aug 5. This one may have the best resolution yet.
Another posting, CCTV prince, August 5. This one gives:
An original link from Facebook, a large format video posted in HQ on August 5 at 6:50 am. Definitely a tie or a winner for best clarity, apparent original. I'm using this for future screen grabs, and will see about saving a copy.
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Aug 13: A clearer view of the victim with his pants down. It's not obvious if his arm is really tweaked back, missing, or what. The dark patch beneath him is I think a shadow of a rock ledge there. He's clearly blindfolded here, it just slipped out of place.
The "Gaddafi soldiers" on video:
Soldier #1 walks up, seen in shadow, armed and filming. The smaller inset shows the shape of his camera - not an iphone. #2 and #3 walk up behind, in that order I think, pass to his left and cross the trench. #4 stays behind standing guard.
#2 manages to avoid being filmed really, crossing back to #1's side as he turns the camera their way (see inset). He's wearing dark jeans, a light civilian shirt, and sandals. He makes an interesting comment (see below).
# 3 wears sandals as well, but a military jacket. His face is covered (to avoid smelling, or to avoid being seen?) but he seems fairly young, and seems to be filming on a smaller device. I'm not an expert on the different camo styles, weapons, etc. typically used by different parties. Do Gaddafi soldiers wear sandals? I suppose they could.
#4, standing off to the north, wears a striped shirt. He's got a chubby face, looks black (or is that just the shade? He doesn't seem any more professional in stance or attire than the others. He also seems to be recording the scene, making me guess that #2 is possibly doing the same.
Subtitles via Misratapost - no guarantee it's what's actually said. Subtitles in quotes, speaking party in [square brackets].
1:25 - "34 bodies." [#3, faint, saying more than this]
1:34 - "This is the fate of rats." [#3, clearly saying more than this]
1:48 - [#3 question, no subtitle]
1:52 - "This is the fate of the dirty rats - dogs." [#1, cameraman]
1:56 - "They smell very ill." [#3]
2:04 - "See the dogs, see the dogs." [#1, spits]
2:09 - "This is the fate of rats." [#1]
2:11 - "This is a child. Show the child." [#3, where he says something just like "Muammar Gaddafi," with a slight "eh" at the end. is there a way of saying "show the child" that sounds like that?]
2:20 - "This is the fate of the dirty rats. These are old men." [#3. voice muffled by jacket]
2:46 - "See the rats." [#3]
3:07 - "This is a child. Dig a grave for him." [#1]
3:13 - "This is from Pakistan? No. I thought so. Dig a hole for him." [#2, apparently, and #1 speaking]
The last line sounds like what's spoken, the Pakistan part anyway. It's an odd side-track, but I presume they're referring to the boy with the hole in his head, wearing the outfit I think is called a shalwar kameez, like several others are. It's popular in Pakistan, and wherever conservative Muslims live. The guy in jeans just didn't get it. Is he even Libyan?
The "fate of rats" part is repeated, and the sound is about the same each time the cameraman says it: a bit like "muslaida jirdat." This isn't really impressive I suppose, but Google translate lets your hear various translated words. What it gives me for rats isn't in there. Nor the words for rodents, dogs, fate, destiny, end, death - none of them is a match. What am I doing wrong, I wonder? Getting too literal?
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Aug 14: I've been over and over the area in Google maps, and still can't find a good match. It's hard to be sure, but the area in question is only a nook of hospitability a few miles wide, surrounded by tangled tectonic masses that just look bizarre - plus barren and treeless - from above. For anyone who wants to help, here again is the satellite imagery you can zoom way in on. If the spot can be found there, I want to know.
Since I've heard Zlitan mentioned as an alternate, I tried to look there, but Google maps imagery is clouded over in that spot. It could provide some matches if visible, but I was also pulled to the area just north of Dafiniya, a few miles east of there as an area that makes sense. Either would put the heat on Misrata rebels instead of Zintan/Nafusah ones.
We also have the supposed men making at least three recordings of the scene. They're said to speak like Gaddafi soldiers, calling the dead "dogs" and "rats." If that's a well-known thing they're supposed to do, wouldn't that make it a well-known thing to do if you were trying to act like gov't soldiers? I'm pretty sure I've caught rebels impersonating wicked soldiers in a few fake videos before. They act stupidly brutal, possibly drunk, demanding allegiance to Gaddafi, extracted with fake-slap and fake-kick force, and insulting the overly-cowed and helpless-looking people at every chance. Apparently Arabs don't do subtlety very well.
This ... if fake it's more subtle. Maybe even the Pakistan line was designed to show how ignorant of Islam the regime's western-dressed soldiers and mercenaries really are. But that's a ways ahead of where we're at.
And some points from Peet73:
Some remarks by the moment: There maybe a dirt track passing by in north and east (the guy with the AK47 at 0:23 stands perhaps in the middle of that track)
Moreover the garbage gives a hint on a nearby road or frequently used track, that's quite typical for north african roadsides.
I think a plane is passing by (starting at 0:40). But this last point will not be very helpfull according to the number of NATO sorties.
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Aug 15, and it’s coming together: We have a location! Thanks again to Peet 73, we have a complete possible fit just outside the area I was searching. As he just explained in comments below, the Arabic comments beneath the posting by algelawy2009 gives a location of مزرعة المليعب which translates "the farm Alumblyab" (using Google translate, and I double-checked, it cites an "apparent mass murder in the farm Alumblyab"). This in turn turns up a match he found on Wikimapia, which shows a dense patch of trees in the desert conveniently spelled-out as the Amlumblyab forest. The term "farm" being used is likely from this being a tree farm, not a real forest. The flat-packed, rutted, trenched, randomly worked-looking soil here fits the idea and what I see in the video. It all clicks. For reasons I'll explain later, I suspect it was near the edge of the "forest."
Aug 15, and it’s coming together: We have a location! Thanks again to Peet 73, we have a complete possible fit just outside the area I was searching. As he just explained in comments below, the Arabic comments beneath the posting by algelawy2009 gives a location of مزرعة المليعب which translates "the farm Alumblyab" (using Google translate, and I double-checked, it cites an "apparent mass murder in the farm Alumblyab"). This in turn turns up a match he found on Wikimapia, which shows a dense patch of trees in the desert conveniently spelled-out as the Amlumblyab forest. The term "farm" being used is likely from this being a tree farm, not a real forest. The flat-packed, rutted, trenched, randomly worked-looking soil here fits the idea and what I see in the video. It all clicks. For reasons I'll explain later, I suspect it was near the edge of the "forest."
It’s outside the immediate area I was searching, but not by much. It’s about 10 miles south-southwest of the Yefren nook, a short truck ride, and closer yet to other places. Like al-Gawalish/Qawalish; no more than three miles down the road is the town where rebels are known to stash their dead just outside of town. In fact, it's edge probably no more than five miles, and perhaps just a few hundred yards, from where Mr. Chivers made his chilling discovery. (I'm trying to pin that area down now, separately). But calling this the "Qawalish tree farm massacre” just doesn’t have the right ring, for some reason. So it's in the "Qala'a area," in a vaguely-named forest, and the reason will become clear below.
For what it's worth, there is another tree farm area just barely south of Qawalish that could fit the video, if not the named locale, just as well. The distiction of which tree farm it was is important. The one named in the recent Shabbab Libya PR gives a heavily-mined "Al-Mal’ab Forest area," which is ... similar. And earlier, they had mentioned possibly the same area (as Peet73 again noticed), with a spelling somewhere between the two that I now prefer - as a place where government force massed for evil.
In a June 3 press release, the kids announced the opening of a supply line to Yefren and al-Qala’a from Az Zintan, to bring “humanitarian” supplies to this front line, and asking for NATO air support to protect it. They also gave specific co-ordinates of government forces that "threatened [...] the region of Yefren and the Nafusa mountains." Among the precise spots "threatening" (otherwise, defending) Qala'a and its civilians was "Almliab forest (VERY IMPORTANT)," which housed a "large force including at least 4 tanks, grad, ammunition, personnel, etc. It is the main army supply to the area (substation) for forces heading west." Beyond this, they assured NATO that "command and control is highly suspected to be in one or more of the 4 buildings given."
This makes enough sense, using the sparse tree cover available, at a government facility no less, to keep their weapons relatively safe from bombing. This is surely what the rebel "investigation" will find, and the inference will be clear enough to them, and perhaps most people, by the time they put it together. So we can start considering it early, here's the narrative:
Gaddafi forces based in the Almliab tree-farm-base take 34 captives from the town in early June, kill them wherever and for whatever reason, and then dump their bodies in this ditch within their forest, unburied, left in the open. They then come back after some time has passed, and film themselves gloating over their prey. The soldiers come, all four of them, mostly in civilian clothes and sandals, and one stands guard at the north end of the trench, in their own forest-base.
This happened perhaps in early June, perhaps July or August. The whole area's been under rebel control since mid-July. But they kept the video to themselves, making one wonder what it was for, until whenever the rebels captured the same soldiers. Only then, possibly as they finally took the forest, that this pointless admission video was shown to the world. Rebel sleuths in Benghazi will put two and two together, and prove they're a real government who can investigate things.
Case solved, right?
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Aug 16: Another Twist: I hate to re-inject complexity, but the locale is not so clear. We have wooded areas near the Qala'a / Qawalish area - one identified "Alumblyab Forest" per Wikimapia, and a "farm" of the same name given as the location on one video. We also have an "Al-Mal’ab forest" given, and an earlier reference to "Almliab scouting camp and agriculture centre." Considering tree farm covers the farm/forest difference, one would presume the name differences, at least between the two that have the 'm' and 'l' in the same order - are irrelevant. It's probably the same place - the tree farm southwest of Qawalish.
Aug 16: Another Twist: I hate to re-inject complexity, but the locale is not so clear. We have wooded areas near the Qala'a / Qawalish area - one identified "Alumblyab Forest" per Wikimapia, and a "farm" of the same name given as the location on one video. We also have an "Al-Mal’ab forest" given, and an earlier reference to "Almliab scouting camp and agriculture centre." Considering tree farm covers the farm/forest difference, one would presume the name differences, at least between the two that have the 'm' and 'l' in the same order - are irrelevant. It's probably the same place - the tree farm southwest of Qawalish.
However, the PR citing Almliab had coordinates I decided to double-check using Earth Tools. I used their number for the forest itself (31°58’38.03″N, 12°40’26.62″E), and the first of the four buildings listed (31°58’59.04″N, 12°40’30.84″E). I got it as close as I could (within tens of feet), and both came out right next to each other, but not on top of or even next to the area we were looking at. Rather, the dots came out about the same distance (3-4 miles) southeast of Qawalish, and further yet - about 20 miles by road - from Qala'a.
What's there, to my surprise, is another, third forested area - smaller and harder to spot than "the farm Alumblyab." This one is more elongated, less level, and more spread out, fanning over natural ridge tops. It's like a cross between the woods by Qala'a and the other tree farm. It's a good match for this video as well, though I'm not sure if it's a better or worse fit. I'll come back to that later. The red circles are approximately the spots they identifed with the coordinates. The northern one clearly means that small complex of small buildings next to the road.
This is a bit confusing, but here are the possibilities, not all mutually exclusive:
- There are two tree farm areas flanking Qawalish with very similar names - Almliab and Alumblyab.
Or:
- The places are considered the same, with one name, just in two sections five miles apart.
Or:
- Some other kind of mix-up.
And:
- The dumping was actually NOT in the forest the government reportedly used.
Or:
- It WAS where the June PR indicates, but the video posting got the name mixed up.
Or:
- Wikimapia had it wrong (who plugs this info in and updates it?)
Or:
- ?
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Aug 17: Not much to add. I checked the pronunciation of "Show the child" in Google translate, and the "child" part sounds like "toffle," or in fact a bit like the "daffi" part of the "Gaddafi" I thought I heard. The first part isn't quite right, it's still uncanny in its similarity to the leader's name, but I'm not so sure this is the clue I thought before.
No plan yet to sort out just which tree farm this discovery was inside of. I'm leaving it for now as one or another of these wooded areas just south of Qawalish.
For what it's worth as a clue, there is a different type of tree visible, for only a frame or two, in only one direction - to the northeast as I have it, nearest "soldier" #4. I can't identify it yet. It doesn't look like an olive tree or a few others I considered. Anyone?
It might be nothing but some mixed plating, or the start of someone's orchard blending a bit into the edge of the evergreen factory, helping set the location. Does the lighting pattern suggest the area in that direction is more open, with smaller trees? I think it might.
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