October 21, 2011
last edits, Oct. 28
So it's more than 24 hours later and still no retraction, and a pretty convincing video exists. It seems Muammar Gaddafi himself was captured, roughed up and bloodied pretty bad, and then shot dead by a hyped-up teenager. Sounds about right for how the rebels work. Celebrations worldwide have greeted the images. What a splendid little war that finally gave us this rush of fulfilling a long-programmed desire. All it took was a lot of scheming, lying, stealing, manipulating, and the often brutal deaths of several tens of thousands of people, and... I could go on.
I have created this space for comments in case someone else finds anything interesting on the reported murder of Muammar. I have nothing to add, aside from the image at left. Thanks to Petri Krohn for the tip on this from al Jazeera of a black man taken captive, strapped to the barrel of anti-aircraft gun as greatly-amused "government forces" drive through Sirte displaying him to general cheers. One doubts they'll be able to resist the temptation to fire off some celebratory rounds with this baby, perhaps until the prisoner dies of shock as his back is seared through to the spine.Allahu Akbar!
Update October 25: Pleasesee the comments below for full video cataloguing, additional links and thoughts, and so on. In addition to other revelations and questions I haven't included here yet, yesterday news was broken of a video analysis by Global Post's brilliant Tracey Shelton. I caught it via CBS News, but the original video stills and explanation are here at Global Post. From two different camera views, it looks like the former Libyan leader was casually sodomized with a knife, by a playful captor, before his untimely execution.
More, October 28: Among Muammar Gaddafi's last recorded lines is apparently this "laughable" but truly apt line, which I've adopted partially as the site's new by-line: "Do you know right from wrong? What you are doing is wrong." There is also Mutassim Gaddafi's execution and odd wounds to consider, the story told by a self-described South African security man who tried to help the Gaddafis escape, how the leader came to be inside that storm drain, and so on. Again, see below.
Update Feb. 23, 2012: Long ago, I starter another post to discuss Muammar's torture and murder, which got many comments but few updates from me. Reader Stan Winer has also written a short PDF report on the episode and its implications. This report, Lies Killed the Colonel, is currently available (the link downloads the PDF) at his site Truth-Herz.net.
The videos are indeed convincing. It's exactly that kind of footage the lynching mob gave us from the beginning on.
ReplyDeleteThe NTC anounced today that Gaddafi died in the crossfire of a gunbattle but the pictures give clear evidence that he was murdered like so many else in the rebels "custody". Other lies and myth will surely follow soon.
I have found five different videos from the arresting and two from the hospital yet. Here they are for evrybody who wants to have a look:
arresting 1
arresting 2
arresting 3
arresting 4
arresting 5
hospital 1
hospital 2
Suddenly it's not a poor country again, it's the richest in Africa , and business is booming, French, British firms are packing their bags en route to Tripoli...."relatively few civilians killed" as a result of NATO intervention...
ReplyDeleteDon't worry, Anmesty International has been working on a plan at the UN for a couple of months...
He has obviously started shaving under his nose during the siege in Sirte. (c.f. hospital photo 1)
ReplyDeleteThe various faces of Gaddafi
Interesting tweet from James W. Foley 2 hours ago:
ReplyDelete@jfoleyjourno:
95 bodies on field from Gaddafi's last battle #sirte, most killed by nato or in battle, 6 or so clearly executed
https://twitter.com/#!/jfoleyjourno/status/127477743096049664
Gotta say the facial hair looks a little thick. He kept it all trimmed in various ways, but was he thinning it all these years too?
ReplyDeleteHaven't even read around on the articles, so this was new when it popped up as a headline:
The footage ends with Ghadafi telling them, "What you are doing is wrong ... Do you know right from wrong?"
The irony of his plea would not be lost on the thousands of Libyans who suffered under Ghadafi's tyrannical 42-year regime, nor the international community which laid the blame for a long list of atrocities at his door, most notably the 1988 Lockerbie bombing that killed 270 people, mainly Americans.
http://www.poconorecord.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20111021/NEWS90/111029955/-1/NEWSMAP
Y'know, it's funny how Libya had nothing to do with that "most notable"among their crimes. And isn't it strange how much of the suffering of Libya's people under his rule occurred over the last eight months?
Changed the site's header. Will be adding to the Sirte massacres on the dead here. They executed Muttassim too, at least, I gather. I'll have to study now... did anyone survive? Trial's been ongoing this whole war, hasn't it? Anyway, each of those executed, even in Misrata, will be counted as a massacre victim under a new heading.
ReplyDeletePK/CL: there is an interesting GlobalPost video from James Foley, Sirte falls, Libya looks to future
ReplyDeleteThree more raw videos from the capturing and lynching of Muammar al-Gaddafi:
ReplyDeletearresting 6
arresting 7
arresting 8
All videos show how he was beaten to unconsciousness before killed. But I think the moment when he got the near distance gunshot wound clearly visible in the hospital videos is not in the footage. It seems his bloody shirt was taken off and his face cleaned before video no. 5, but the wound on his forehead is still not there and the colour of his skin shows he's still alive.
It's clear that Muttassim was also executed, at least two videos show him captured alive and without serious injuries.
ReplyDeleteHe was probably tortured with burning cigarettes before he was killed, as the last video of the dead body shows.
Muttassim 1
Muttassim 2
Muttassim 3
Will share Martin Iqbal's relating of Bebka's reporting that the fight might have happened differently than reported:
ReplyDeletehttp://empirestrikesblack.com/2011/10/did-nato-special-forces-assassinate-muammar-gaddafi/
Peet, wow, thanks for the cool breakdown and analysis. Without watching those, is it clear he's beaten unconscious, or maybe beaten dead? Was the gunshot maybe staged to explain his death asdown toone exuberant kid as opposed to a general mob pummelling? Just a thought.
I think this whole thing is too big and important is why I shy away from wanting to get into it yet. I looked at the Muttassim video though and I can't confirm those are cigarette burns as opposed to birthmarks. But he does have the final cigarette video, so it makes a certain sense...
All in all, I think the kid did Muammar a favor. They've publicly stated they wanted to cut off Saif's fingers one by one. What they had planned for Dad, perhaps did to brother, possibly worse.
In my opinion there is no need to hesitate due to the importance, your video analysis has often been the most accurate I've seen in the WWW. And others even don't hesitate to publish their bullshit ;)
ReplyDeleteBut yes, of course it is a big piece if you want to make it right. Sadly also my time is quite limited for the moment, I hope it will be better later on this year. But for the moment I'll continue to collect the stuff I find here, I think also the raw material might be interesting for some readers.
I also think that the kids did a huge mistake and a fine last wish to the colonel when they gave him oportunity to die as a martyr.
There is another video al-Jazeera showed where Muammar is seen in the ambulance on the way to the hospital. This one sems to be the first one where he has the gunshot wound on his forehead and alredy looks more dead than alive.
Your idea that the wound was added to hide the real way he was killed is possible, but I wouldn't prefer this possibility. I think it's more probable that some foolish kid wanted to be the hero who killed the leader and just did it. Perhaps really this bragging kid presented by Russia Today?
One more capture video, this one in HD quality.
ReplyDeleteاخراج الجرذ مدمر الجرذافى من حفرة المجارى حصرى
www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3PE4JSWY0I
Uploaded by 4libyafreedom on Oct 23, 2011
I have a thing too about getting a historical distance or cooling-down/fact-finding time (weak excuse, selective use). Plus you guys are doing great. I'l probably join in more in a bit, but for now, screw submitting articles. Comments are great, leave a lot of room, they appear here. They don't appear to appear in Google searches, or a site search, however. They appear for me in something like a searchable in-box, a plus. Suppose I could do more copying into the body...
ReplyDeleteAnyhoo, I'll check back in after I've caught up some other things.
PK: Site location? Might help figure out something. :) Whateva ya like!
A map with the location of the attack on the Gaddafi convoy was already given by al-Jazeera.
ReplyDeleteUruknet has collected some more videos of Muttassim's last minutes. They also give an interesting translation for the dialogue with his guards.
You're right that the dark spots on his face and his shoulder look more like birthmarks but I can't recognize them on the earlier videos.
I think I read somewhere that he was tortured with burning cigarettes, but I don't remember where and can't find the source. Anyway, it's probably not sure.
New development: GlobalPost: Qaddafi apparently sodomized [with a knife] after capture
ReplyDeletehttp://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503543_162-20124758-503543/globalpost-qaddafi-apparently-sodomized-after-capture/
Also, if not Mutassim, Muammar has something like burns on his chest. Not necc. intentional.
ReplyDeletehttp://denverpost.slideshowpro.com/albums/001/496/album-274101/cache/pow06.sJPG_950_2000_0_75_0_50_50.sJPG?1319527210
Photo of three dead loyalists next to the tunnel he was said to have hidden in:
http://denverpost.slideshowpro.com/albums/001/496/album-274101/cache/pow05.sJPG_950_2000_0_75_0_50_50.sJPG?1319527210
One has a cast on his right foot, and another is black, and has something over his head. If I'm reading the image right, it's draped over the cable and his upper body. I can see the possibility of no head under there, or of a head. Not clear enough.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSPk4bQuxPI
ReplyDeleteThis video shows Mutassim having his shirt removed making it the first video in his questioning.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYCVvUR3Bqo
This one is after they have questioned him and he seems to be unconsious. From this site you will be able to link up to the other videos that show him being questioned.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1nZyBy0t3A
In this video he is dead and we see a gapping hole in his chest. So far no video of the actual murder.
Ah, a new commenter! Hi, eyes wide open. I had a comment typed up earlier...
ReplyDeleteI haven't had time to get into the videos, but saw some photos and text. One: Mutassim dead. (image #5).
http://www.seattlepi.com/news/article/Libyan-doctors-say-Gadhafi-died-of-shot-to-head-2229335.php#photo-1686323
There's a pre-existing chest wound, explaining the blood on his undershirt. I thought they mangled his left shoulder, but that might be bloody cloth... The other hole is high on the chest, looking almost like a tracheotomy, right? Oddly, I saw the video described here, and he's earlier rubbing the same spot:
In a video aired Friday on Al-Rai, the 34-year-old Muatassim, wearing a bloodied undershirt, sits on a mattress in a room with fighters around him. He takes a swig of water and smokes a cigarette as he argues with at least one man who accused him of robbing the country and abusing its sons.
The fighter then orders Muatassim to say "Allahu Akbar" or "God is great" before the video cuts to a segment with Muatassim lying subdued on the mattress with his forearm on his forehead. He also appears to check for an injury on his collarbone.
The last scene is of Muatassim lying dead, apparently in a hospital, with a huge gash in his chest.
This stuff is morbid,weird, and actually covered enough (props to Shelton's catch on the ass-knifing cruelty) that I'll keep sitting back and working on other things.
Except finding the hotel. That shouldn't be hard.
I see it's been found. The two leaning trees appear also. The small building with the "candy cane" out the top
ReplyDeleteis a water basin, like the Qawalish one. It's in the spot of (or is) the small gray thing shown in that corner near the trees. Beyond that, the low wall and pink buildings. Good work, PK!
Thanks again for that comment, Eyes Wide Open. This might be crucial to understanding what happened.
ReplyDeleteYou know what I don't get: This shows the escape route, as reported and understood by BBC:
map of the capture and killing
How hard was it to control the highwayout of town? NTC seem to have freereign and general control, after a couple slaughterous months. District two,hop on the highway and drive away? Loyalists not allowed to flee, maybe, but a private security company of white Afrikaaners with lots of unexamined cargo okay?
Then NATO is called in as the only force capable of stopping a convoy? That makes sense, from a PoV of creating another narrative of co-operation and teamwork. Or was it a failed assassination attempt, with the ground troops finishing it?
Was it all improvised, really? Did it even happen that way at all?
From the excitement of capture, the excitement seems genuine. But even if it were staged, still, this is MUAMMAR! We're faking but with MUAMMAR! Where's that bayonette? ALLAHU AKBAR!
Libya S.O.S. has a nice list of the videos and analysis:
ReplyDeletehttp://libyasos.blogspot.com/2011/10/unexplained-circumstances-of-moatassem.html
No, I can't belive the Afrikaaners story, that's to adventurous for me.
ReplyDeleteThe Telgraphs Ben Farmer was probably the western journalist closest to the event. Despite it's written from the Mainstream/NATO PoV it perhaps some truth in his report.
Accordingly the rebels were completely surprised by the breakout though the british and quatari special forces that were coordinating the siege had warned for such an event.
After the successfull breakthrough the convoy of 75 vehicles was bombed by an american Predotor drone at the Western roundabout that is spotted in the al Jazeera map above. That was probably the moment when Muammar and Mutassim were divided in different groups. The group of Muammar continiued soutwards to the electricity sub station spotted in the BBC map. There it was bombed by two french jets before the final minutes of Muammar started.
By the way: Farmer also cites "Do you know right from wrong?" as Muammar al-Gaddafis last "laughably philosophical words". No, these words are not laughable at all. And they fit perfectly for a blog looking for facts and truth - it was fine idea to take them in the subtitle.
Thanks, Peet. I at least think the story doesn't seem quite right. It could well be one of those made-up stories by self-described parties tacking themselves on.
ReplyDeleteBut the whole story sounds odd. All others who've surrendered -in a situation geared towards securing surrender -have had to pass through rebel check points or get shot for refusing to stop. I suppose serious drivers could aim and then duck as the bullets flew, and keep going, but...
When I look closer, I'm sure it'll be interesting. Must finally do some copying. Peace.
Kadhafi didn't hide in the drainage pipe, he was forced in there by the 'pro-democracy rebels' (or as HRW calls them now, the Misrata Murder Brigades) for that 'Saddam effect':
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyTOONuqMKk&feature=youtu.be
(Sky News report)
(by the way, RPG Protestor = me)
Hey, RPG... That's an interesting addition. To quote Ramsay:
ReplyDelete"fighters are still coming top the now infamous irrigation tubes where Gaddafi was last seen alive. Some though say that Gaddafi was forced into the tubes as a symbolic reference to his threat to kill the rats rising against him. There's an investigation. Few doubt there'll be many answers [sic]"
From the Daily Mail, 24 february 2011...
ReplyDeleteFormer Business Secretary Peter Mandelson has socialised with Saif Gaddafi on a number of occasions, and has admitted discussing the case of the Lockerbie bomber with him during a holiday in Corfu in 2009.
The financier Nat Rothschild is also close to Saif, and has welcomed him to his family homes in Britain and Greece.
Charles (Lord) Powell is also deeply involved in Magna Holdings. (Daily Telegraph 7 November 2009)
Hi again, found this on abc.net.au. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-10-21/gaddafi-to-be-buried-quickly/3594396
ReplyDeleteAt the 01.15 mark, a man with minor injuries describes allegedly what happened in the lead up to Gaddafi's capture. So there's footage of burnt out cars, then at the 01.26 mark you see a blue (?) face and a quick frame of bodies... I swear those bodies were older than the battle, i saw flies and cracking skin. And what also jumped out me was the capture of Mutassim, from 04.26... The ABC reporter said he was captured a week before, around the 12 - 14 October. I don't know if this is useful at all... Thanks
DL: Hey. I have seen the blue face, and was like "WTF?" I'll have tolook again later, but there's the possibility this stuff happened and then "happened" again. I've stayed at arm's length, still will...
ReplyDeleteMutassim was of course rumored capture on Oct. 12. It was big news, then unconfirmed...then he issued a big call to global revolution... then a couple weeks later shown dead. So maybe? They said on the 12th he'd cut his hair short to hide. Proof that was a lie is his hair's pretty long as he's killed. Normal length? No expert.Toolong to "blend in."
Right on -the warrior didn't cut his hair. They lied, but then did catch him later anyway ... in an unannounced move (??) pretending this confirmed their umpteenth Gaddafi son capture story of the 12th?
Note to self: Arm's length, there's time later...
This blog page is named "Sirte massacre," but in fact it shows the results of the NATO airstrike on the Gaddafi convoy. Not quite massacre stuff by the standards of this site, but shows the devastating power of NATO's bootless war and occupation (also known as the No-fly zone).
ReplyDeleteLibyen: das Sirte-Massaker vom 20.10.2011 – unzensiert! 18+
Here is the embedded video:
http://dai.ly/syD2vA
What do you make of that doctor who allegedly performed DNA tests of Colonel Gaddafi, Dr Ibrahim Tika - ،إبراهيم تيكا has no other internet presence as far as I can see. Another non-existent person? He must be a pretty skilled pathologist to have allegedly performed a post-mortem, reported on 21 October. Which lab carried out the DNA tests? (answer, probably no lab, ditto P-M)
ReplyDeleteDrone- any trace of bombs, craters? All I see are burnt out cars, bodies burnt or not. Is the drone strike credible?
ReplyDeleteCould be. Hellfire missiles detonating inside vehicles won't leave craters really, and that's what they're ideally supposed to do in cases like this (I think). Haven't looked close for signs-outward bowing of the frame, I'd suspect....
ReplyDeleteI have wondered why so many seem to have been parked as opposed to driving when hit. Or am I grossly confused there? Worth a dedicated post?
On Dr. Tika, no opinion. Until I see Muammar resurface, I'll presume they got him, and any such questions are of secondary value at best.
ReplyDeletePeet -
ReplyDeleteI am puzzled by Ben Farmer suddenly popping up in Sirte for a few weeks from his normal base in Afghanistan. He wrote a piece immediately after the alleged killing, Col Gaddafi killed: no mercy for a merciless tyrant.
“When we had him and we surrounded him he was talking like an idiot,”said 20-year-old Mohammad Elhweje, who was one of ten fighters from Misurata who captured him. “He was saying, 'What’s going on, what did I do?’ No one could believe it.” [nor me either]
The convoy managed to evade the front line and drive about two miles west and then, for some reason, parked close to an electricity sub station. [don't tell me, they parked up because it was handy for a nearby concrete drain...]
“Gaddafi and some of his inner circle tried to run away,” explained Ali Gadi, a 21-year-old member of the unit which found him.
[Smart move that, race to freedom across the desert using old Sandhurst training techiques...]
In the confusion, the convoy had been followed by some rebel fighters from the western front, but they were lightly armed and under-strength.
“They stopped out here. It wasn’t clear who was with them and what sort of firepower they had,” said Mr Gadi. “We held back for a while to see what they would do.”
Unknown to the rebels, the convoy had not escaped the surveillance of Nato.
Just as the rebel brigades were deciding what to do, it was hit by at least one bomb in a Nato air strike, causing devastation among the tightly-packed vehicles. [second perfect timing]
The Telegraph counted 14 smouldering cars and pick-up trucks and at least 25 dead bodies. [bodies not smouldering in the main]
Somehow Gaddafi escaped, but his situation had become hopeless [somehow, of course...]
He and a handful of others fled north around 200 yards down the main road and sheltered in the drain. [so he only ran away to play hide and seek]
As members of the al Watan brigade from Misurata approached the smouldering cars, they had no suspicion their former leader was close by.
“We thought Mutassim [Gaddafi’s son] might have tried to escape,” said Mr Elhweje. “Then Gaddafi came out. One of our guys grabbed him in a bear hug.”
Running on foot and with his baggage smouldering in the destroyed vehicles, Gaddafi was not found with many possessions, but those he was carrying were displayed among the fighters as spoils.
One held a gold-plated automatic pistol which he said he had taken from the deposed leader.
Another held a dainty-looking man’s black leather boot which he said had been stripped from Gaddafi’s foot.
So there we have it, the official narrative out in the open within hours.
Just for the record, here is the Guardian,20 October 2011:
ReplyDelete12.07pm: Please treat the following with lots of caution, but the Misrata Military Council is reporting that Gaddafi himself has been arrested.
This is not confirmed. In an email the Information Centre for the Misrata Military Council said:
Now in contact with our correspondent at the front of the Sirte. The tyrant Muammar Gaddafi Was arrested. God is great and thank God
ICMMC not tweeting since August 24, now sending emails!
1.01pm: My colleague Chris Stephen has seen a statement on the arrest of Gaddafi - which we still cannot confirm - from Misrata military council.
The statement said: "The tyrant Muammar Gaddafi Was arrested on by Misurata Thwarr [revolutionary fighters]." It added: "God is great and thank God."
Chris writes:
Hassan Elamin, a prominent Libyan exile who has lived for 28 years in the UK and is the editor of the online Libyan newspaper Libya Almostakbal said he had called Misrata today and that Gaddafi was reportedly being held in Misrata, Libya's third largest city. He said the city was in the middle of wild celebrations. "We're still taking in the news," he told the Guardian. "This is a big buzz."
Elamin said Gaddafi was arrested by Misratan units in Sirte late last night and reportedly transported to a secure location in the city and that in the same arrest Gaddafi's former defence minister Abu Bakr Yunis was shot dead.
What happens to Gaddafi now is unclear. Misrata military council is on record as stating that it recognises the authority of the ruling National Transitional Council but does not accept its commands. Earlier this year Misratan war crimes investigators told the Observer they had complied evidence against Gaddafi including documents purportedly showing his forces being ordered to commit war crimes during the siege of Misrata.
2.48pm: "We cannot confirm his death."
3.09pm: Hillary Clinton, the US secretary of state, while not confirming Gaddafi's death....
3.32pm:
3.39pm: In London Libyan charge d'affaires Mahmud Nacua is giving a press conference.
He confirmed that Gaddafi is dead.
3.46pm: David Cameron just made a statement at Downing Street, saying the Libyan government had confirmed that Gaddafi was dead.
He said we should remember the victims of Lockerbie, PC Yvonne Fletcher, and IRA victims killed with semtex provided by Gaddafi's Libya, as well as all the Libyans killed over the last several months.
Comment is free
Gaddafi is dead. We must now forget him - uploaded 16.45 hrs BST by Alaa al-Ameri,the pen-name of a British-Libyan economist and writer, who wrote "He achieved nothing" (really?)
The statement by Elamin needs examination.
By contrast here is the Telegraph - Ben Farmer, Afghanistan Correspondent (!) in Sirte:
ReplyDelete10.45am In the early hours of the morning, at least five cars carrying loyalist fighters attempted to escape the city, but most were rounded up and killed by revolutionaries.
12.06pm Reports that Gaddafi's defence minister Abu Bakr Yunis has been killed.
12:25Foreign news agency AFP are also reporting that Gaddafi has been captured, according to the an NTC commander and Libya TV.
12:30 NTC sources who claim to have seen the wounded Gaddafi say he was captured wearing a Khaki uniform and a turban.
No mention of activity the previous night as per the Guardian, which was very close to UK Libyan Rebels, eg. Guma el Gamaty,the UK-based co-ordinator for Libya's National Transitional Counci and friend of Elamin, who tweeted on August 19:
Guma_el_gamaty Guma El-Gamaty
Has G son Muatassim been really arrested last week in Sirt?! Has the news been deliberately suppressed and why?! All could b revealed soon!
It was Guma El Gamaty who was also instrumental in putting the official narrative into the public domain via Sky News, as reported by the Guardian:
1.20pm: Guma el-Gamaty, the former NTC coordinator in the UK, is telling Sky News Gaddafi and his close aides tried to escape and freedom fighters tried to capture them. There was an exchange of fire and reports claim he was killed or injured, Gamaty says. We cannot confirm this.
1.18pm: An NTC commander, Abdel-Basit Haroun, says Gaddafi was killed when an airstrike hit a convoy trying to flee, according to the Associated Press. We cannot confirm this.
Note on Abdel Basit Haroun (or Abdul Baset/Basset):
ReplyDeleteIslam in the Libyan revolution:
Another prominent Islamist leader is Abdul Basset Haroun al-Shahaidi, who lived in exile for 21 years because of his opposition to Gaddafi. According to The Washington Post, he has travelled abroad to seek money for security training in Libya. “The Islamic way is not something dangerous or wrong. The West hears “Islamic law” and they think we want to lock our women in boxes,” Shahaidi said. “The Islamic groups want a democratic country, and they want to go to the mosque without being arrested. They are looking for freedom like everyone else.”
However, the two most influential Libyan Islamists are probably the Salabi brothers. According to Der Spiegel, “Ismail Salabi commands one of the toughest rebel brigades in Benghazi. His brother Ali, considered one of the country's religious leaders, spent time in Libya prisons in the 1980s for criticizing the Gaddafi's regime. Two decades later, he was recruited by Gaddafi's son Seif al-Islam to help negotiate freedom for imprisoned Islamists who renounced violence, including Belhaj.”
After the anti-Gaddafi uprising started, Ali travelled back and forth between Libya and Qatar, the Arab nation on the Persian Gulf that supplied the rebels with weapons and trained its fighters.” In those months, Ali emerged as an important figure in the Muslim Brotherhood, one who has contributed to the constitutional charter and is seen as a spiritual leader for some of the fighters. He is also a close associate of the Muslim Brotherhood-linked scholar Yusuf al-Qaradawi. (PressTV , Iran)
I SAY , FK YOU WHO SOLD THEY COUNTRY TO WESTERN PUPPETS , FK YOU WHO PUT THE MONARCH FLAG BACK , FK YOU WHO RAPE AND KILL THEY OWN FELLAS , FK YOU SOLD PUPPETS . YOU CANT TAKE THE MONEY WITH YOU IN THE GRAVE !! BUT HOW MANY DID YOU SEND TO DEATH ??
ReplyDeleteIf you are sincerely Libyan then my heart is Green as is yours. If you are from Langley, TwitterGrabbing Industrial Park, or Lego-Land, Vauxhall, UK, then may I return the expletives you textualise, quite vehemently.
DeleteMay the Force, or Farce, former to latter, be with you.
E.Q.Waliser
E>Q>, welcome! You spurred me to finally respond, to say, "what he said." :)
Delete@ Anonymous: Wow. All caps.
ReplyDeleteI don't disagree at all of course. But fucked or not, they run things now, absolute justice, as always, impossible, basic facts to deal with. There needs to be, at the least, a much more sane balance. People need to be mentally slapped into waking up. Demonization, exclusion, and endless, an-checked vengeance are not without their consequences, to Libya's tattered soul and to its "peace."
Felix's comment re Gadaffi shaving below nose has occurred to me for some time.
ReplyDeleteThis slomo is very clear and his face can be seen well: SloMo
SAS? is at 20:47 & if so, seems to be stirring things up yet not participating?
The ring is missing off Gadaffi's right-hand, but the ring-finger looks bloody as if the ring was removed roughly.
The legs-shooting doesn't tie-up with the state of his trousers or his walking ability.
There is also a post I've lost claiming, with dated analysis, the capture video was u-tube uploaded the day before the actual capture?
This video is interesting as it appears to be at the initial capture: video
However, this video shows Younis Jaber here dead and horrendously treated by a rebel.
Compared to the second video there are a different number of bodies around and Younis is not there. Also the cables / ropes? seem not to be prevalent in both videos.
This image looks realistic but appears to be synthetic from comments. Makes one wonder about a 'set-up?'
I have copied videos as things seem to be disappearing at quite a fast rate!
My understanding of Gadaffi's capture was that the SAS were monitoring his comms and Saif 'phoned him giving the SAS the location. When the convoy (75 vehicles?) left Sirte a drone targeted the first vehicle and the remainder dispersed randomly. They then set-off in different directions but two French planes engaged them. It also appears Gadaffi's vehicle wasn't targeted specifically.(SAS knew and instructed?)
I can find no record of Gadaffi having the 'golden gun' waved around on some videos. It seems the public want him to have such a large calibre one as he is vilified as a, 'Dictator.'
There is a record of a gun purported to be his and it is more realistic to his flamboyancy?
This whole apparent set-up leads to the question, is this now in Fort Knox?
E. Q. Waliser
Martin Iqbal (empirestrikesblack) has some interesting follow-on comments about the way Gadaffi was totally set-up by Clinton et-alia. Worth reading.
ReplyDeleteEQWaliser
Thanks EQ...some interesting thoughts in the comments there from dave
ReplyDeleteInteresting Reuters explanation of Gadaffi's capture, of course if one believes Reuters? I do not like the, 'International crimes against humanity' bit, however.
ReplyDeleteWhat is acceptable is the sudden change of attitude away from the, 'vile dictator' bit to him wanting to stand and fight. Somewhat benevolent?
The hand-grenade bouncy-bit is also interesting in that Gadaffi appears saved by his flak jacket. Grenade must have been quite clever to only 'aim' at the jacket, but thrower and Younis position to Gadaffi not clear?
Also Younis appeared to have been shot in a previous video (posted above), and his face showed no signs of being near an exploding grenade?
I wonder where they got the info from and it needs to be compared with other data.
EQW
The photo gallery of Paul Conroy who is in the news in Syria at the moment, of Reflex TV, his own business , includes 50 images of Gaddafi Capture in Sirt
ReplyDeleteلحظات القبض على القذافي -- الحراس و وزير الدفاع
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6B5EZimioE&feature=related
Gaddafi's Driver
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIbEHS8jJNs&feature=fvwrel
THE CLOTHES OF THE COLONEL , MISRATA , SIRTE : WHAT HAPPENED?
ReplyDeletehttp://www.globalpost.com/video/5678720/location-sirte-falls-libya-looks-future
khadafi naked MISRATA
http://www.youtube.com/user/zaqura1001?feature=watch#p/u/36/knNdwL4Nndo
افي عاريا تماما Gaddafi naked SIRTE
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/libyans-capture-sirte-gaddafis-home-town/2011/10/20/gIQALAmC0L_gallery.html#photo=46
An anti-Gaddafi fighter shows the clothes of Moammar Gaddafi near Sirte
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EDTSPSXgy4&feature=related
مقتل القذافي شريط لم يعرض من قبل
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRTXVclU02Y&feature=related
Deleteالليبي الذي قتل القذافي و أخذ خاتمه و قميصه
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5v9WiLSAL8&feature=related
Another person than the one in vid above who comes to sell the clothes and ring of the colonel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAGQQlkHWhk&feature=related
ReplyDeleteHow Gaddafi's convoy was stopped by U.S. drone and French Air force fighter aircraft Mirage 2000
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdag3dlfW9s&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ililAHfkXE0&feature=related
Uploaded by bonanza91v on Oct 21, 2011
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEx4ainBNF0
Explain in detail the process of killing Gaddafi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=R8eWq36V9JI
area pipes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=S42a2r6v4aA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOA9NGT_PK4&feature=endscreen&NR=1
EXCLUSIVE New Video of Gaddafi Being Tortured
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yb071JpiBSU&feature=related
كيف مات القذافي لا تفوتكم
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fx9g1gkzhCQ&feature=related
the faces of some of Bilah's killers
There's something wrong with the video sequence of G's assassination? Videos showing him stripped of clothes should have been after beating? But his face has no blood on it, while other videos shows him clothed and bloody? Moreso he gets bloody and is clothed in other videos? (From my slomo I thought he had brown high-heeled boots on, not black? My wrong?) The other video within my post explains the youth with the cast on his leg, alive at first, but dead soon after.
ReplyDeleteMy previous post (not linkable?) seems believable in explanation yet a palliative for the Regime.
Looking at the layout of the drains it's hard to see what the grenade bounced-off?
There is a report G was killed in the ambulance. And I have seen other claims it was by a Green soldier relieving G of suffering, and also a last-minute-fight-back from G? Not sure here as G was not really thinking?
The other problem everyone has commented on is the arrangement of all the vehicles, like in a car-park?
Now here's a bit of 'Conspiracy Theory?'
G (possibly) thought Blair & Obama his friends?? If Dave from Martin's Site knew something, G was offered a way out. He had already agreed to cease military action with the West but this wasn't forthcoming? Also there were reports of 'white-flags' on his convoy?
When the lead vehicle of the convoy was taken-out by the drone (if true?) G would have been quite confused and, if he had then surrendered to the SAS, known to be there, and they had ordered him to instruct the convoy to assemble and surrender, he would have done so, believing it correct?
This would account for the 'car-park' assembly of the convoy?
When the Rafaels bombed the sitting targets, the SAS would have taken out anybody escaping, ergo, dead, shot, bodies away from the vehicles?
And then, the SAS would have handed G over to the rebels?
Not nice such shit, but mentally like Clinton et-al!
EQW
Apologies, Forgot. :-)
DeleteEQW
@ Edward : nice photo of the old boys network.
ReplyDeleteThe clothes of the colonel are a mystery.
I think when the murder just came in the media I saw a black and white photo of some clothes spreaded on a small road. Afterwards the photo was
unfindable.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=7x88aEn3aM8
technology used for hunting the colonel
The technology used for tracing the colonel
http://www.firstpost.com/topic/person/abu-bakr-video-eRt5kL2ahBw-17181-1.html
Capture of Abu-Bakr Yunis Jabr's Sons and Gaddafi's Driver
Abu Bakr Yunis' Sons have been captured, beaten very badly along Gaddafi's driver,
while Abu Bakr Yunis , the father has been found dead near the explosion of the convoy where Gaddafi escaped alive until he ran into the Army of Benghazi Men and wanted to bring him alive to the NTC but the Misrata brigade ran into Gaddafi and beat him.
In the Video, The 2 boys are the sons of Abu Bakir Yunis, as you can see that they have taken a very bad beating and the revolutionaries ( most likely from Misrata ...
http://libyasos.blogspot.com/2011/10/unexplained-circumstances-of-moatassem.html
THE UNEXPLAINED CIRCUMSTANCES [?] OF MOATASSEM [Mutassim] BILLAH GADDAFI'S DEATH
@ Getty photo's
ReplyDeletehttp://i44.tinypic.com/35bdqbp.jpg
If you can't see that, it's the metadata beneath the photo, which notes that it's a video grab from a mobile phone of a National Transitional Council (NTC) fighter... but then says that the credit, if anyone uses the image, should go to: "AFP PHOTO/PHILIPPE DESMAZES (Photo credit should read PHILIPPE DESMAZES/AFP/Getty Images)."
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20111021/03150316445/who-gets-copyright-photo-beaten-gaddafi-captured-off-cameraphone.shtml
From The Guardian:
ReplyDeleteMilitia forces from the Libyan city of Misrata executed dozens of detainees following the capture and death of Muammar Gaddafi a year ago this week, according to a new report from the group Human Rights Watch.
Libyan militia 'executed 67 detainees'
Peter Beaumont, The Guardian, Wednesday 17 October 2012
I have always thought the capture of G was somewhat improvised.
ReplyDeleteCame across this (Italian) that is quite believable and interesting, raising several observations.
For me it seemingly explains a lot of weird things; G's convoy seemingly 'arranged?' G appeared quite 'not there' when 'captured' and removed from the 'rat' hole?
All these observations seemingly generate my feeling that G was captured a-priori and as the link annotates, was tortured, drugged and then given to the rebels in this state.
Again I have wondered why G never used his MANPADS against NATO. This link seems to provide an answer.
To quote:
"But if negotiations fail and the war continues, the "Libyan sovereign" may decide to escalate the conflict by bringing out his arsenal weapons have not used in six months War, as anti-air missiles that could be fired Scud NATO planes. You saw it Tuesday, August 16, when for the first time in the conflict, his army has fired a Scud ground-to-ground from the city of Sirte to the rebels who were trying to enter Brega."
It seems to confirm that G thought he could negotiate a cease-fire and if not, escalate the conflict. This is more in his nature (IMHO) than a lot of crap the MSM uses to convince us that G was merely a buffoon.
EQW
GADDAFI Dossier. Death: many versions and the unspoken public "Gold Trail"
ReplyDeletehttp://mcc43.wordpress.com/2012/10/19/dossier-gheddafi-la-morte-tante-versioni-pubbliche-e-la-taciuta-pista-delloro/