Warning: This site contains images and graphic descriptions of extreme violence and/or its effects. It's not as bad as it could be, but is meant to be shocking. Readers should be 18+ or a mature 17 or so. There is also some foul language occasionally, and potential for general upsetting of comforting conventional wisdom. Please view with discretion.

Thursday, June 23, 2016

The Saida Massacre's Green Torso Torture

The Saida Massacre's Green Torso Torture
May 5, 2016
last edits (major) June 23

Warning: unusually graphic and possibly disgusting pictures here. Sorry, that's where the science is.

One of the pivotal events of the early uprising was on April 29, 2011 - the Friday "protest" to "break the siege" of Deraa, which was ambushed out of nowhere at the military housing complex in Saida. Its said many were shot and perhaps "hundreds" were arrested, with some 20-51 allegedly taken by military intelligence, tortured, killed, and handed back to their families as a warning. 

By far the most famous of these was 13-year-old Hamza Al-Khatib, whose story I'm reconsidering along with the events of the day they say he was arrested, over HERE (a bit later summarized in a PDF report: The Killing of Syrian Child Hamza Al-Khatib: Five years after the event, ...what was the event? - available here) But he wasn't the only one. The collective death toll seems to be around 50 at least (still tallying and comparing sources - see table of victims at ACLOS, ), with at least 30 28 allegedly arrested by security forces before they died. 

Although activists claim half or more of this killing was done in secret detention weeks later, the whole mass of death is branded as a singular Saida massacre. This might be more accurate than they let on. My working theory is all these people were killed and tortured/mutilated on April 29, during the "protest" - they were in this sad state before the government ever had a chance to "arrest" their unidentified bodies following the clashes.  

In support of this, I've found all victims that are visible after their hand-back (nine total, so far) display advanced decay. It seems like only some day's worth in the elements, but it also seems to be refrigerator decay, different, slower,  and running probably  exactly the whole time since April 29. 

In most cases, the opposition's activists are clear the victims were held for a while, made to suffer, and killed only at the end, shortly before the bodies were returned. So in that widely-accepted narrative, the stuff that looks like decay must be some kind of recent and bizarre abuse. There are a few manifestations of it, but the main element is what they would have to call the green torso torture. It could look like some kind of decay of the fluids inside the body, especially near the site of an injury. But it' implicitly, to them, a torture that remains totally unexplained. Also, as explained below, the further out from April 29. the more vicious they got with it. 

Note 6/23: As the just-revised report explains (starting with a tip in a comment below), this has less to do with injuries than intestinal bacteria. Upon death they go rogue and begin putrefaction, leaving this green color -  it starts in the lower abdomen and spreads over the body from there, usually within a few days, but much slower with refrigeration. ---

First, one body returned same-day (April 29), at least 5 on May 16, and none in between. None of these early returns has video or visuals to consider.  Of those that do, let's start with the two youngest victims, who have the honor of "Caesar" leaking their morgue photos for comparison, in order of return.

Hamza Ali Al-Khatib, 13. VDC notes: "...his body was giving to his family in 24/5/2011, The body shows excessive torture marks and several shot wounds, the also cut off his genitals."  
May video, (bottom frames) decay morgue photos, (upper left) - body #23 (in Eastern Arabic numerals)
25 days since 29 April (or perhaps 22 days - The official story has order to return signed 21-5.)

Injuries: general beating, 3 shots - 1 in chest, 2 through the arms and into the sides - maybe facial injury (bridge of nose) - castration/penis severed credibly reported (but officially denied) - seems scrotum cut open, penis not seen (covered here, finally, on noticing what that was - decay might suggest it was done before, not after hand-over - but that's contested by 3 days...). Dark face in upper left is dirt/blood/unclear. Later washed off, and dark from decay instead.

Decay: Bullet hole in chest (white circle) was red, turns black, is called a burn - green patches (circled in green, not present just after death): between chest wound and right shoulder, lower abdomen and groin. Upper green at least not there in upper left. Face darkening, maybe a bit green. Likely mild bloating (chest and chin seem closer together later) "Abu Hamza Al-Doumani" tries to explain Hamza's weight gain and/or blaoting as fluid torture - 10-12 liters poured in his mouth, making his body swell.This is ridiculous, and doesn't explain the green patches.

Thamer Mohammed Al-Sharei, 15
VDC notes: returned to the town in 6/8/2011 in a wooden box with distorted body, and organs 
video, morgue photos,
body #12 (in both Eastern and Western Arabic numerals)
40 days since 29/4
Injuries: shot in the left knee, right arm, larger hip wound, said genitals bludgeoned, cheek torn wide open and teeth smashed out, at least
Decay: feet very yellow, upper torso pretty deep green, face and hip wound dark brown (video, low resolution, right). At the time of the morgue photo (left), color seems natural, freshly dead. Again, the green stuff is time-release, or what?

In both cases, the compared images are clear some days at least passed in between. Or, those who insist ... if they got the time-delayed green stuff into Hamza, why not get even more into the kid they held onto and tortured for longer? Right? And maybe it's the same story with these others, where we only have the later image. They could have been green even in their morgue photos, for all we know. Precedent says otherwise, but ...

We can see at least 7 8 others allow for a solid sampling ... in order of reported handing back, 19 May up to 4 July.Numbered, in order of handover:

1) Mohammad Hasan al-Zubi, age 70. From Msaifra, married w/10 ch, National Number خ9 Notes: "A martyr from the Sayda massacre, he was injured in the neck by a bullet during a demonstration on 4/29/2011 and was detained and tortured, his mutilated corpse was returned on 5/19/2011." cause of death: shooting (seems to be incorrect - this classes as D-T by their usual norms)
Video title: Cham - Horan - Al-Musayfirah - Martyr Mohammed Al Zoubi 19-5 (May 19)
20 days since 29-4
body #28 (Eastern Arabic numerals)
Injuries: left eye seems gouged-out (covered) - mouth smashed, slices and other abuse to the legs and maybe groin, at least (bottom, left thigh down to the knee).  
Decay: minimal - much is pink/livid, but greenish patches on torso, eyes and face barely starting to darken - would look worse in 5 days or so. 

2) Husam Ahmad Taha al-Zubi 17
3rd youngest of 20 tortured detainees, per Amnesty. VDC notes: "One of the martyrs in Saida massacre where he was shot on 29-4-2011 and the bullet entered from his waist and was out from his shoulder. He was arrested and his body was handed over on 05.21.2011.

22 days since 29-4
Body #10 in W. Arabic?  (not very clear)
Injuries: an entry wound on right side, exit at left shoulder, possibly unclear skull damage too.
Decay: green color all through torso, in the neck, and especially the lower belly opposite from the entry wound. Related wound: unclear  possibly groin.

3) Mahmoud Ahmad Abdulrahman (al-Zoubi), 73: Amnesty report: he was in a van with 20 others, tried to run, was arrested. VDC notes: from Mseifra, Saida Massacre... his body was delivered on 23-5-2011 - National Number خ121 . Video title: Tortured martyr Mahmoud Abdulrahman Al Zoubi of Al-Musayfirah 23/5/2011
24 days sine 29-4
body #apparently 7, later overwritten with handover date (explained here).
Injuries: shots/holes in right knee, serious left hand abrasion, general marks, small cuts or stabs in top of head, possibly fatal. As translated, his supposedly official death explanation was heart attack caused by torture and stress. This makes sense, and suggests he at least was tortured, not mutilated post-death.
Decay: minimal sign - torso is a bit gray/neutral, but not healthy - pink is being overtaken by green - would look worse in 5 days.

4) Hamza (see above) 

5) Sameer Abd al-Qadr al-Zu'bi (added June 23), age 39, married with 6 children, from Msaifra, Saida massacre ... his body was handed over on 24-5-2011.
Like Hamza, this is 25 days after the alleged arrest.
Video (Daily Motion)
body # - none seen
Injuries: hole in upper chest/shoulder, with flap of skin, nasty puncture through right hand, at least.
Decay:  unusually minimal, like Mahmoud but even pinker. After 24 days he has only (that I could make out) a moderate gray-green shift in the torso (right frame, rotated), and slightly darkened wounds (middle). He's also quite thin, possibly starved, or otherwise, and might be a counter-point to Hamza - less intestinal bacteria to start with. Otherwise, this is a bit of a challenge to the main picture where the decay gets consistently worse over time.

6) Mohammad Husain Shihada al-Zubi, 39 from Msaifra, Married with 5 children, degree in Sharia law, his body was handed over on 26-5-2011.

27 days 
body #4 in Western Arabic
Decay: green color all through torso, at shoulder, worse in lower abdomen, in legs, no other serious marks - wounds may be in the groin and on the back - possible slight bloating - face slightly dark

National Number خ102 Married with 4 children, from Msaifra, Employee of the Department of Water. his body was handed over on 26-5-2011 - date of death: 5-21
27 days
video video
no body number seen
Injuries: major abuse to and huge hole poked in back, green suggests lower torso or groin injury in the front torso, small (bullet?) hole in lower throat,  at least.
Decay: green color and bad texture near wounds, noted by examiner in video - stiffness of deeply chilled, almost frozen tissue, is not noted. The decay would move much slower than estimated, and the time since death would be much longer.

8) Nazer Jabr (Mohammed? al-Zoubi? Or just Jabr?) from Msaifra, returned June 7. No further notes. 

39 days since alleged arrest.
video with frames at right.
body #22 (E. Arabic)
Injuries: unclear - apparently in the abdomen and the neck at least
Decay: massively green torso, dark infected veins, strange patch of yellow in the center - gray-green decay in neck

9) Thamer (see above)
10) Mohamad Al-Elewi Al-Kalash from Maaraba. Date 2011-07-04
65 days since 29-4
body #27
Injuries: cut to neck, same-sized cut to chest, eye(s) missing?
Decay: Advanced. Body is darkening, green yielding to brown-black, face is already black.

In all cases, to some degree, these 10 victims display the green torture, especially at the site of known wounds - not the usual kind with darker black germs prevailing, and with bloating, or maggots for that matter. Apparently the cold keeps those digestive tract germs, or their gas-production, suppressed, while  these others manage to carry on their green-tinted work, slowly but surely. 

Or  ... seriously, is there anyone who can look at this and still push for the activist story/implication here?


  1. Thirteen-year-old Hamza al-Khateeb became the poster child of Syria’s revolution when a YouTube video of his funeral arrangements went viral in May.

    Beyond that, a closer look at the Youtube
    video reveals that there is no evidence of torture at all, and most
    certainly not at the hands of Syrian security forces. The body is so discolored
    and disfigured from the discoloration, that one cannot be sure that it is even
    the body of 13-year old Hamza. It certainly looks to be someone else entirely.
    The video is definitely graphic, but at no point does the video show that the
    body has been castrated. Most bizarrely, the Arabic-speaking narrators of the
    video continue repeating ridiculous slogans about freedom and dignity. Where is
    the emotion and outrage of what has supposedly been done to the child? Where is
    the indignation? And casting further doubt on the entire matter, at the end of
    the video, the narrators call on the UN and Amnesty International to take action
    against Syria. Suspicious does not begin to describe this footage.
    Bashar al-Assad himself traveled to the family’s home to offer his condolences. The body in the now-infamous Youtube video belonged to that of a still unidentified man in his 20s, which was photographed and taped by Syrian opposition members (34).

    1. The 20s claim is bogus - skewed my thinking too for a while. Kid has no body hair, and the Dr. says 2nd decade, so between 10 and 20, including 13. Everyone but the confused agrees on that. And castration (see below, above, around). Otherwise good points made.

  2. The second boy in this ‘tale of two children,’ is one that the greater majority of those who follow mainstream news and even those claim to be activists have never heard of.
    This boy isn’t marketable, nor is he profitable and unlike Hamza, his story cannot be manipulated, mutated and transformed into a media fiasco.

    This boy’s name is Malik Ahmed Suleiman. He was only 14 years old. Young Malik was from the
    city of Homs, a major battleground between the Zionist-Saudi axis’ destablization operatives and supporters of President Bashar al-Assad.

    He was the son of Syrian Army Colonel Ahmed Suleiman,
    a supporter of President Assad and a staunch Syrian nationalist.
    On May 29th, while the world was incessantly
    clamoring about the false stories regarding Hamza al-Khatib, Malik Ahmed Suleiman was strangled to death
    with a belt in front of his home for holding up a picture of
    Bashar al-Assad during an anti-government protest.
    Young Malik was targeted because his family
    had rejected the ‘Syrian Revolution’ and stood in solidarity with the majority of the Syrian people in
    their support for Bashar al-Assad.
    Why hasn’t this heinous murder been spoken about by mainstream media? Firstly, because the Suleiman family stands with the
    Resistance. And secondly, because Malik Ahmed Suleiman’s tragic story would invalidate the Zionist narrative regarding Syria’s ‘peaceful revolution.’


    1. Malik - VDC says he was with regime's army (rank: civilian) and killed by shooting, May 2013 http://www.vdc-sy.info/index.php/en/details/otherstatistics/81439#.Vyw49L6rH-s

  3. something strange about the penis of Hamza Al-Khatib
    it doesn't look like a mutilated penis but more as a complete though undersized one

    1. I can't see the thing at all, unless it's that little ice-bag, as I think. Beneath, no sign of blood, just that fold that would make me wonder if he was a boy at all - but this I think is from being so chubby. The only clue here is the green, which happens more near injuries, so I guess he was cut there ...

    2. I had a closer look at the other video, and that must be his scrotum, swollen/bloated - no clear cut, or penis, but a curved shape - possibly a glans/head of a penis, but also maybe a testicle poking out of a hole. Hard to say for sure - not the best view of an odd part of the body - that you don't usually see on Youtube. But when there's a special need to blame a dictator...

  4. 1. Changes in tissue colour
    The first visible sign of putrefaction is a green or greenish-red discolouration of the skin. As red blood cells burst, they release their haemoglobin15 load, which will diffuse through the walls of the blood vessels and stain the surrounding tissues red or reddish-brown. There they will undergo chemical changes to form various derivatives, including sulph-haemoglobin which discolours the tissue to a greenish-yellow, greenish-blue or greenish-black colour.

    usually a greenish patch on the lower right belly

    After the initial decay, and the body begins to smell, different types of insects are attracted to the dead body. The insects that usually arrives first is the Diptera, in particular the blow flies or Calliphoridae and the flesh flies or Sarcophagidae.

    The females will lay their eggs on the body, especially around the natural orifices such as the nose, eyes, ears, anus, penis and vagina.

    If the body has wounds the eggs are also laid in such.

    Flesh flies do not lay eggs, but deposits larvae instead.

    1. Thanks, anon, sry slow. May work that in above.

    2. Thanks again. Insects are irrelevant here, but the internal discoloration thing is important. Starting there, I dug around and found the red is transitional (and only seen here a bit), and the green is cause by intestinal bacteria, starts in lower abdomen, and spreads green all over the body from there, usually over a 1-3 day span, or way slower in refrigeration. Partly worked in above, explained better in the report.


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