last update October 17, 2015
Intro, March 19
As I said at the outset, two posts might suffice if there were no major new developments in the case. But there are several, with previews in early 2015 and a culmination starting March 5 and ongoing. On the 5th, Team Ceasar had some 4,000 photos (of several hundred victims anyway) released via the Facebook page "Stand with Caesar," with victims' faces not blurred. As intended, this was followed by a slew of identifications of people said to be arrested by the "Assad regime."
There's too much going on with following the new leads (mostly via Twitter, slightly jumbled record here at ACLOS) and other projects to do the subject justice here yet. But this is the space I'll fill in soon-ish. And if anyone has comments on the recent developments, here's a ready space for them.
Note October 17: I never did much more with this - see ACLOS pae for that limited work. But For the record, a comment below tips me off to a collection of ... nearly 7,000 photos? From SAFMCD (in Arabic)- organized into folders by blamed unit - explanation auto-translated:
Total pictures in Online: (6796) (last updated to upload photos Friday, 20 March 2015 03:02)
Heading the Syrian Association for the missing and prisoners of conscience for the families of the detainees and missing persons to communicate with us through our website, in order to identify the names of the martyrs, as they advanced file management to two courts in Europe to bring actions for violations, and claims only completed with the participation of families of the victims in the prosecution. We note that the Syrian Society for the missing and prisoners of conscience are searching with the help of a group of international humanitarian organizations in the form of parents to secure the plaintiffs.
I have read with great interest the first two parts of your study, but keep on my hunger at the end of this 3rd one.
ReplyDeleteThe first two parts actually point out several weak points in the whole Caesar narrative.
IMHO, the most convincing part is the analysis of the senseless anonymity claim.
I've also read some other materials, focussing their point on the central role of the Qatar in bringing up the whole thing (even though you mention it, it's not your most important focus area).
However, despite the blind spots that you pointed out, despite my very will to be, I must admit that I'm not convinced that the Syrian regime have not killed those people.
You must be aware of the following website: http://www.safmcd.com/martyr/category.php and you would likely have several interesting things to notice regarding those publishing the website for instance, or the actual content itself.
However, the pictures don't appear to me as falsified. The major part of them look to have been taken in the same place (that grey clay) and I can't find another explanation than these people have been killed along the same "process", by the same entity. Neither any reason to believe that this process is the alleged one, that is to say the Syrian regime.
As a conclusion, I would say that even though the "Caesar" allegations were true, I would keep on supporting the regime, on the sake of secularity and minority protection, not to mention other geopolitical factors. However, I would be sorry.
I look forward to reading your thoughts regarding my short comment.
In the meanwhile, keep up the good work, thanks.
Rgds.
Hey, a detailed comment from a non-regular. I'm too tired to really respond right now but wanted to formalize my intent. Tomorrow I'll have an adequate go at it. Thanks, and cheers. A
DeleteThank you for this welcoming prologue.
ReplyDeleteI take the chance to add a brief elaboration to what I said before.
The pictures were alleged taken after the beginning of the civil war. Thus, even if they were truly what we are told they are, they would still not mean AT ALL the same as if they had been taken prior to the uprising.
Worst case scenario, this would be the proof of killing of prisoners of war (or opponent). As bad as it would be, it has not at all the same meaning as killing political prisoners (or opponent) outside of a war.
Remind me how many Syrian soldiers taken as prisoners have been released so far? I mean in one single piece.
(That being said, I keep hoping that to find out some reasons to believe that theses pictures are not, what they were said they are.
ReplyDeleteRgds)
Okay, I'm back mostly. I don't think I have run into that site yet. I guess those are folders of photos, didn't look yet. But from what I've seen, including the ones covered here/at ACLOS and the geolocation to hospital 206 (I should update that post finally), I agree many or most or maybe all photos are from there, not as I speculated from some rebel base.
DeleteSystemic patterns can be seen in the shackling and starvation at least. But there's also the mixed-types clues, random torture of men in street clothes, etc. So my feeling is still those come from different armed groups. The bulk victims with only underwear left suggests something more organized and large-scale - maybe a bigger brigade - but still lacking in prisoner uniforms, or opting not to use them if so, or maybe stripping them off after death? And no laundry service. .
And the numbers - Caesar says it was a code to conceal identity, Damascus says (only specific offered) that's because they were unidentified bodies (so, just found?) (should clarify this point too)
You raise a good point though about what is it is true, the "regime" is killing these people - who could have been fighters, involved in massacres, for all we know. Some of this is horrible and it would raise grave questions if so. But if these were the only questions, or the worst ones, I'd still recommend supporting them from what I've seen of how grave the whole scene is and who's responsible for the worst of it (the massacres, like Houla).
And it could be partly true or mostly true. But I doubt it. So support to Damascus seems to be clearly the right choice.
Oh, and I finally caught the first try the spam filter blocked. Sorry about that, but approval not needed now (right?). The second try worked, odd...
DeleteThank you for the detailed answer. I'll think about these (new) clues again.
ReplyDeleteIf I insist so much on that Caesar topic, it is because from my perspective, the current Western Main Stream Media propaganda against the Syrian regime relies manly on the 3 following assertions:
- Assad kills his own people. Not convinced. The war kills his own people. The US bombings, in French Normandy for instance, killed many civilians during WW2 (Not even to mention the "guilty-for-support" German civilians in Berlin or Dresden)
Would someone dare to blame the US for it? Of course not. The root cause of those bombings was obviously the German occupation, although the bombs were actually American, and the killed civillans were not in immediate danger of death under the German occupation.
- 2011 peaceful protests. Not convince AT ALL. And thank you so much for the amazing amount of research that you brought on that matter on this site.
-Finally, this Caesar stuff. It appears to me that THIS is the very allegation that allows the average people to believe the narrative saying that Assad is no better than ISIS (attrocious picture VS attrocious picture). And I must admit that this is the only among the 3 with which I'm not comfortatble to argue with people, even those with good will and without secret agenda. [1/2]
From my perspective, again, the other stuff such as chemical attacks, etc. seem to me already spoiled, in so far as everyone knows that at least, the regime was not the only one to use them. But these 3 topics, IMHO, are those on which the average people make their opinion. Not who committed the Houla massacre (although it's a very significant topic to me).
ReplyDeleteSo far, I've never seen another place (website) where the analysis goes so deeply into facts. It's really impressive and I hope that your material will be shown and used if ever we reach one day the "time for trials". Because the opposite side will undoubtedly be prepared for that moment.
(No worry about the failed 1st attempt. It must be because I tried to poste it by using the "anonymous" sign off. And sorry for my English, not sure I'm always as clear as I expect to be) [2/2]
Edit : Now I'm having issues with my WordPress signin :)
Thanks for the kind words, and not untrue either. As for your words, mostly seamless English, better than my French by far, And clearly you opossess some diligent thinking of the kind the world is short on, so keep that up.
ReplyDeleteAgreed it's not the clearest subject, but not as clear either as they make it sound. I'd say argue it kind of like that, or like I have - Caesar isn't trustworthy, there could well be a different true story(stories?) behind all this.
I might have done more work, found a clearer answer - and I might re-engage it (last answers were rusty) - like the numbers: some include 215, and that's intel branch, not batch of unidentified victims ... unless they just picked batches that lined up, or faked that or all numbers? Is their a hospital 215 they got transfers from? Etc.
And all those starved men seem dead the same short time when photographed - how do you get so many men to starve to death at once? You wouldn't - you'd maybe off them in mid-August a practice run with your chemical weapons you plan to use big time on the 21st. The bodies would be left somewhere, then photographed by your insider at hospital 206 (who'll scribble 215, etc. on a card?) and then he'd flee with the photo copies. (just a thought, but a pretty good one)
And one other thing I haven't said enough - Damascus should give us more of their side of the story. They should know far more than anyone but as usual remain almost totally quiet or vague in blamin the other side, and it's unconvincing to most at this point.
Thanks for the comments, and feel free to leave any more you have. There's been no crush of comments (of this type) to deal with.
The Assad Regime killed and tortured thousands of Lebanese for 30 years, its only logical that it will kill ppl who rebelled on said regime.
ReplyDeleteThe conflict in syria took a strange road and now ppl are being bombarded by the propaganda that sayS choosing less of the two evils.
An Anon sez: I believe some prior allegation is a fact, so this one is prob'ly a fact as well. Next one will be easier yet to accept. No independent thought was ever needed in that vicious circle.
DeleteIn response to: one weak point in my otherwise epic and in-depth investigation of these "Caesar torture photos." This lame post is from when I had only learned a bit, was briefly blindsided and overwhelmed by thousands of photos to consider..., and this post was just left like that. Since then, in other posts ... you should have a look. If this mass-torture-killing of Lebanese allegation is any precedent for the "Caesar photos" victims, I would have to guess Wahabbi Takfiri terrorists were also responsible for that crime.
But of course I'd be unhappy leaving it an an well-founded but uninformed guess, and I would ask to see the best evidence (and the worst - I can tell the difference), and then offer a better-informed opinion.
It's a cool approach. Give it a try sometime. Doubt what you hear, read the lines, and then read BETWEEN them. Use your own brain.