August 31, 2011
last edits March 6, 2012
<< The Tripoli Massacres
Note Nov. 15:
This mess of a post is not yet worthy of this extremely interesting cluster of unexplained war crimes. It'll be re-worked some day. For now, take this text as an intro if you need it, or skip to the more worthy split-off posts, and then further thoughts, at the bottom.
A Last Act of Barbarism?
The latest Tripoli horror show left to us by the smashed Gaddafi regime, discovered by "freedom fighters" on August 26, is a mass of at least 150 dead, many mangled and blasted apart, at least 45 of those charred to a cinder. The massacre and fire happened in a farm shed behind the Yarmouk military base, a headquarters of the vilified Khamis Brigade, shortly before (or shortly after?) the rebel conquest of the base on the 26th (or was it the 23rd?). Around 100 more were rumored killed with them a few days earlier by the brigade, their whereabouts briefly unknown. At least 150 remains were reportedly trucked out on the 28th.
Self-described witnesses, about a million of them, have come forward to confirm that uprising supporters and mutinous soldiers and ordinary men were held there for days or months in appalling conditions. These men (actually about 20, and all light-skinned) said they were tortured, starved and denied water, and in one case beaten and slashed and left for dead for days. But they all made it out alive, hardly any of them hurt at all in the climactic massacre of August 23.
As their own end drew near, and their chances to practice evil threatened to expire, the Gaddafi soldiers just killed their wards, shooting the captives with machine guns and blasting them with hand grenades.
The remains were burned probably a couple of days later, the narrative runs, to conceal the nature of their crime. With all the skin and clothing gone, these bodies of light-skinned civilians could, for all we know, be mostly dark-skinned members of the Khamis brigade itself. Brilliant!
Too bad up to 30 light prisoners by some reports, one in five, managed to escape, and about 20 of these have already told their story about what happened. So that didn't work...
What Actually Happened?
My best guess, put briefly, is this: the Misrata brigades who "liberated" the base around sunset on the 23rd, following on NATO bombing, found a real mess inside. Blasted bodies, injured loyalists, and a few intact holdouts needed to be mopped up. In the end, they had what they estimated as 140 dead of various types, found dead, killed in fighting, and executed.
Eventually, the number rose to 175, and it was decided to deal with them all on-site and create a better story to explain these dead, half-black, obvious loyalists. Fire was decided on to erase identities, and paid/coached witnesses were found to create new ones. These were in place by the 27th, and so finally they acknowledged just taking the base, and brought the media in.
I plan to explain this all better once I'm more sure and have some more preliminary things figured out.
Sub-posts:
Time and Space
Base and Shed Location
Getting a spatial-visual bearing on just where this stuff happened is sometimes useful. No exception here
Shed Massacre Chronologies
Three different times given for the rebel conquest, all probably wrong, given the clues they took it on the 23rd. Other interesting patterns emerge.
Early Shed Massacre Reportage
Until I work these into the timeline, some oddities in the first reports, including my big clue they took the place no later than the night of the 23rd.
(early) Shed Massacre Tweets
An early video and its unique clues
Exterior Imagery Chronology
Looking at photos... important to clarifying the overall timeline.
The Hole in the Wall
!!!
Minimum Security?
A look mostly at the doors and locks, the perfect escape already having been covered.
People (living)
Witnesses, Escapees, Survivors
Masterlist with numerous sub-posts.
Witnesses Assessed
Incomplete post covering patterns among what the various two-dozen or so witnesses have said about the massacre they swear happened. Several different times it must have happened, unfolding differently each time.
See-Through Salem: Dr. Salem al-Farjani Or, What Ever Became of Dr. Rajub?
Masterlist with numerous sub-posts.
One of the witnesses who helped steer the media towards reporting regime authorship of this rebel atrocity, Dr. Salem/Salim Raub/Rajip seems to be physically the same person as Dr. Salem al-Farjani/Ferjani. That's significant, as the latter is the rebel government's eventual head of locating missing persons and decider of who killed who during the whole war, nationwide. We might know just why he was hired for that job.
The Witness Recall the guards
Shed Massacre Witnesses: The Captive Soldiers "Confess".
Survivor/Family Imagery
Further Discussion on alleged witnesses
Khamis Brigade Shed Massacre: A Legacy of Mytholog...
People (dead)
The Death Toll
Update March 5: More recently, the official tally, that given to the UN Human Rights Commission, for example, has been whittled down from almost 150 to 106 out of 157, with "only 51" survivors confirmed. (see here)
The Charred Victims
A belated analysis of the 40 or so bodies I can single out, recognize, number, and analyze. The last has begun, but has a ways to go.
Charred Victims Imagery
The Dead Outside the Shed
Some pretty horrendous killings of eight men (six of them black) in the area right around the cinder house. These men's identities were not chosen for erasure by fire. Why? The one with the most clearly horrific (unexplained) injuries is claimed as another escapee from the shed.
The Yarmouk Mosque Dump
Another 22 dead men, reportedly all black, were found down a dirt road behind a mosque, 500 meters from the base, on August 28. A direct link to the shed massacre isn't proven, but is suspected.
Other
Khamis Brigade Shed Massacre: Follow-Up Work
PHR Shed Massacre Report
The UNHRC Reports
The Local Fighters
Vehicles
Further General Thoughts:
Known credibility issues with rebel stories about charred bodies in places they just conquered
As I explain here, a previous case of mutinous soldiers, five in an army base they had just "liberated" was false. The rebels who showed the charred remains and claimed them as heroes neglected to mention they also captured five innocent men from Chad and burned them alive at the base that very same day.
So, they burn people sometimes and blame the regime. You can't tell they're lying just by looking at the bodies, because the main clues have been burnt away.
a few more snippets culled from the web...
ReplyDeleteTRIPOLI local residents say ther R many more bodies buried in th BenGashir Khamis Brigade32 compound or in nearby warehouse+buildings #Libya (Libya Uprising archive 24- 27 August)
‘Mass grave’ found in Tripoli The bodies of around 53 people have been found in a warehouse in Tripoli after apparently being executed earlier this week, Britain’s Sky News reported today.
Sky News’s correspondent, Stuart Ramsay, said he had counted the bodies in a burned-out warehouse in southern Tripoli, and estimated there were 53.
“It is a scene of mass murder,” he said, reporting from the scene.
Ramsay quoted witnesses as saying that 150 people were murdered at the site on Aug. 23 and 24 as opposition forces fought to take control of Tripoli from troops loyal to leader Muammar Gaddafi.
A local resident told Sky that the victims were mostly civilians and said they had been killed by Gaddafi’s forces.
from 28 August,same source...
pdanahar Paul Danahar
We now know warehouse near Khamis Brigade HQ where civilians executed by #Gaddafi army is same place BBC team tortured in March. #Libya
CNN's Arwa Damon also shows the warehouse at 00.40 onwards in this CNN Video
At 1.24 she meets an alleged survivor called Muneedh (?) who says a grenade was thrown into the 15x10m space and the guards opened fire , when there were 175 people crammed in instead of being set free as they had been promised (allegedly). remains of "more than 150" were found. All very improbable.
An RT Arabic video uploaded 28 August also shows the interior of the warehouse but also some non charred ,bound bodies outside (?) titled اكتشاف جثث 53 شخصا بطرابلس
A drive through video uploaded by abuslam1 on 18 October the discovery of the remains in a secret warehouse in Tripoli is inconseqential, but may indicate the area.
Oooh, some new sources to me. I'll be checking these out. Excited to update the witnesses post next, but had a busy day.
ReplyDeleteOn all Tripoli Massacres I found an insane article from Human Rights Watch with the treasure trove of images and many details. Will be working this in, too.
http://www.hrw.org/news/2011/08/28/libya-gaddafi-forces-suspected-executing-detainees
And some article that seems kinda detailed:
http://editstreet.com/2011/08/gaddafi-forces-suspected-of-executing-detainees/
It's all pretty clear. As rebel forces started advancing with weapons, militarily into the area, and people are then found dead by weapons ... Gaddafi's people did it.They had meant to unfurl their evil more slowly, but pressed with an imminent end, Gaddafi's forces - largely "African mercenary" - saw it was the last chance to indiscriminately slaughter random captives - mostly black - before, quite often, vanishing from the earth themselves.
The two links are the same article. Odd that Al-Sweyi appears from nowhere in it. His full name is Osama Hadi Mansur Al-Swayi, as written in this full report by Human Rights Watch,helpfully titled Gaddafi Forces Suspected Of Executing Detainees. Plenty more named witnesses and stories in there.
ReplyDeleteThe warehouse story (AP) was parotted by the Guardian newspaper, but now it is about 130 detainees (1 square metre each...)
Mabrouk Abdullah, who was at the site Sunday, says he and other prisoners were told by a guard they would be released Tuesday. Instead, guards threw hand grenades and opened fire at detainees huddling in a hangar.
Abdullah says he had been crouching along a wall and was shot in his side. He says that as survivors of the initial attack tried to flee, they came under fire again.
PS Gargur is also Gargour, غرغور in arabic, Al Amal Al Akhdar = الامل الاخضر (Green Hope)
YouTube user ahmed19951999 has taken several mp4 videos of entering this area, and taking down a green flag from a Tripoli petrol company building, such as ثوار طريق المطار
There seems to be a case of friendly fire injury in this video . All uploaded 27 August, concluding with a visit to the 11th June Hospital (staffed by Filipinos etc) for treatment of the injured, and where the new flag was erected.
A Scottish matron called Karen Graham gave a telephone interview from the 11th June Hospital on the Second Ring Road in Tripoli on 24 August. Her gripping story from the middle of the battle is here Perhaps that's her with the blond hair in the ahmed19951999 video?
Al Arabiya reported in a video ,uploaded 28 August,The Toll of the battle for Tripoli another typical mass grave being dug at Suk Al Juma. (pictures)
Martin Chulov reported from Matiga Hospital that the staff were treating Gaddifi loyalists there (audio link, 5 mins,26 August)
Elsewhere on reads.."When fighting reached Tripoli, female revolutionaries converged on Matiga Hospital, abandoned by pro-Qadhafi doctors and nurses." : The Hindu, Libya's Women Revolutionaries, 14 Sept 2011,Anne Barnard.
Thanks. I have a couple of updates needed already.
ReplyDeleteI obviously didn't read those articles, but all related to the alleged witnesses I'll want so I can move on again to other things...
The Videos of fighting on the airport highway by ahmed19951999 are actually right outside the 11 June Hospital which is formerly the Tripoli Oil Clinic طرابلس مصحة النفط (as written above the door). It seems that this was in rebel hands by the 24th.
ReplyDeleteA YouTube video uploaded only on 12 November by treatment2400 shows staff proudly waving the new flag of Libya inside the hospital which had been taken over by rebels in the battle. It seemed to have been re-opened on 31 October.
Karen Graham gave an interview on 22 August to STV Scotland .
Karen Graham, 40, from Clydebank, who works at a medical centre on the outskirts of Tripoli, has witnessed attacks on the Gaddafi compound from the window of her home....Ms Graham, a former army medic, who lives near Col Gaddafi's compound, told STV News that she has treated people from both sides of the conflict...."We will treat pro or anti." However, she subsequently 'described the "mood of elation" among staff at a medical centre on the outskirts of Tripoli as rebel forces swept through the Libyan capital' to the Herald Scotland , 23 August 2011
Full article in the Daily Mail, 28 August 2011.
The Al-Akhdar Internal Security Building in Gargour is photographed here by HRW including the two additional bodies in the closet under the stairs.
ReplyDeleteThe journalists don't seems to have been brought here. I wonder why not? Where exactly is this building?
The HRW page on Gargour witnesses is now here
The pdf uploaded 24 August is now dead.
Is there any reason to believe that there were more then fifty bodies at the shed on August 26th? What is the evidence? I agree with you, that counting the bodies only gives around 53 visible victims.
ReplyDeleteThe number 140+ is a reflection of a crime that happened or did not happen elsewhere – before the shed victims were burned or maybe even killed. The survivor witnesses, if they can be trusted at all, never came back to actually count the bodies. They can only testify to how many prisoners were with them, but if the prison shed was divided in two parts, how do they know the total?
The only on-site source for the 150 number is Bashir Own on August 28, but he too is suspected of being a liar.
Looks like the shed is a poor fit for the crime the witnesses are testifying about: wrong color, wrong number of bodies. Like with O.J.'s glove, if it doesnt fit, you must acquit!
I have just come across even more footage of the shed, this time very different, with Red Crescent personnel present. It is an Australian ABC crew this time,uploaded 29 August: Inside Tripoli's massacre warehouse
ReplyDeleteMiddle East correspondent Ben Knight reports, with different personnel present including one with a disguised face (head dress) as seen on Tripoli Brigade videos.
"At the Khamis miltary base,on the outskirts of Tripoli, the Red Cross has arrived to inspect the site of a massacre. Suddenly there is a shout from over the fence: another body has been found" (how spontaneous!) "Quickly they walk around to a house overlooking the base. In this bare tiny room they find the victim. It is impossible to tell at the moment whether this is a rebel soldier or a Gaddafi soldier. Whatever the case,the body has been left in a hurry it has been covered in lime. It has only been discovered today and it (sic) would expect that there are going to be a lot more discoveries like this in the coming days and weeks."
"Miloud Jabri lives nearby"
"I heard there's around 64 bodies nearby..and I didn't believe it, I said no way. I had to see it in my eyes and I saw it in my eyes. It is incredible. Yes ,Man, it is too much!"
Another fascinating performance.
ANother outside witness! Great quotefrom him. Wonder how the Misrata Brigades feel about his description of them.
ReplyDeleteThe other victim shown is quite interesting. I have been watching oput for another dead guy in a nearby house ever since I saw one escapee (A.I. Bashir) alleged that one of the Misrata brothers, Hussain, was left to rot by all in the house they'd sheltered in after the rebels rescued brother Abdelsalam and Mr. Bashir. Weird as hell in context, but I suspect he meant to claim another brutalized loyalist he saw or heard about as another escapee.
Great additions, Felix. Looking forward to seeing them worked in.
I find Miloud Jabri the most reliable of the witnesses. He does not testify to seeing the massacre. In fact, he does not quite believe a massacre has happened. It is as if the 60+ bodies have come out of thin air. Maybe they did.
ReplyDeleteSomeone on Dailymotion has been helpful and tagged a video with "Miloud Jabri." Unfortunately the video has been removed by the user. Searching with the caption however reveals a copy on youtube:
Gaddafi family members escape to Algeria
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1ySFtN0WCg
Uploaded by NewsOnABC on Aug 30, 2011
Shed massacre coverage starts at 1:24. It shows the same Red Cross group inspecting the site, but gives some extra angles of view.
You're right - he's not even a witness to anything we're not seeing ourselves. His quote might be of use, but he won't be added to the big list.
ReplyDeleteThe other video, good find. I will skim it for clues now.
Watched it - same report except the body is not shown close-up.
ReplyDeleteThis TeleSur video shows a dead body (0:08) that seems not to be in the larger section of the shed.
ReplyDeleteEncuentran 50 cuerpos calcinados en Trípoli
Correct link here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyNbqh3YH5c
Deleteyes, the guard house again..the video is very similar to the RT versions which also peeped in there. Looks like the same time too.
Pretty sure that's from the little-seen second part of the shed seen in one of the iPhone videos. I remember the weird stuff in two recessed spaces. Not many bodies burnt in that room. How the total comes out, I'm still not clear.
ReplyDeleteSo far, it seems if the body is burnt (and that's just residue, I think), it's a sheddie, and if not, it fits here (unless it's a kilometer away).
There might well be more than nine, but I do doubt we'll see any more than those if we haven't already.
Ah, thought we were at the "dead outsdie the shed" post. Sorry. Indeed, general stuff here, as if it even matters a lot.
ReplyDeleteJust noticed this early perceptive blog and photographic analysis by luckee1 over at Truth Frequency, Agenda? Media is giving questionable photos as evidence of Libyan massacre. They are graphic so as to give shock value and stun the critical thinking out of you., 31 August. Great questions.
ReplyDeleteThanks for that. I think the pipe might be oxidized enough, about where burning tissue would have been. But some fair points, especially about the blown-open rib cages. I still haven't even started a post dedicated to the bodies inside the shed and what their state and piling about one heave-and-toss from the doorway suggest to me.
ReplyDeleteThere was yet another alleged escapee buried in there, only mentioned in captions with Berehulak photos.
35 people escaped as the guards were reloading their weapons, according to a survivor, Abed Rizaq Ghazim Senussi from the city of Grames, he being one of them.
That list will be so awesome once I finally update it.
I have only now noticed the Physicians for Human Right report from December 2011 on the shed massacre:
ReplyDelete32nd Brigade Massacre
Evidence of war crimes and the need to ensure justice and accountability in Libya
Quote:
Forensic evidence referred to in this report is cited from the Forensic Crime Scene Report written by Stefan Schmitt, MS, Director of the International Forensic Program (IFP) at PHR, issued to Libyan authorities upon their request with a copy to the International Criminal Court. This report is based on field research conducted by Richard Sollom, Hani Mowafi, and Stefan Schmitt.
I have only opened the report, but it discredits itself already before I start reading:
Unrest in the capital began on 20 February 2011, when loyalist forces fired live ammunition at protesters from aircraft.
The source used for this long since debunked lie is this BBC News report from 21 February 2011: Libya Protests: Tripoli hit by renewed clashes.
How can anyone publish shit like this in December 2011?
We need a separate post for discussing – and most likely, debunking – the Physicians for Human Right report.
ReplyDeleteThe report was released on December 20th, the press release is here:
New Report Provides First In-Depth Forensic Account of Libyan Massacre
Cambridge, Mass. - 12/20/2011
Another quote from the Acknowledgments section:
Support for this investigation and report was provided by the Open Society Foundations.
The Open Society Foundations is better known by its url: www.soros.org/
George Soros is known as the chief financier of the "Arab spring" and the criminal war of aggression against Libya.
The teams independence and neutrality is further diminished by the following:
PHR expresses its sincere gratitude to Dr. Mohamed Othman and Dr. Salem Al-Fergani for their inestimable support in carrying out this investigation.
Dr. Salem al-Farjani, also known as Dr. Salim Rajub, has already been exposed as the fabricator of the Khamis Brigade massacre fable.
Absolutely.
ReplyDeletePress Release by Megan Prock here
Just found this photo on a Chinese site, bodies covered with lime
ReplyDeleteThe title of the sequence relates to the 53 dead in the warehouse. See also no.3. But 7/8 relate to Abu Salim Hospital. Where were 3/4 taken?
Better site for the above here, minus adverts..
ReplyDeleteThe Chinese set mixes photos from the shed massacre with photos from the Abu Salim hospital. Numbers 3 and 4 are of the group of civilian bodies next to the service building in front of the hospital.
ReplyDeleteNumber 6 of the set is interesting. It shows a group of mourners standing near the dumped bodies in the center of the compound. We should try to identify these "witnesses" and fabricators. In fact, we should catalog everybody seen on the site on August 27th.
Indeed, that is the pile next to the hospital, 19-22 bodies, Mostly black, executed, two women and two children among them, says none other than Alex Thomson.
ReplyDeleteThe grief-stricken man at the shed could be Mohammed Bashir, who saw the shed victims burned alive. Hair may be too thick, however, but he'satleast claiming to be a relative, I guess.
Bashir's photo, with Zaydan, is shown in the Mirror article, which I didn't clarify or include in the existing witness list. Will be added, along with more escapees and other witnesses - now at least 25 alleged escapees long, probably 27, maybe 29 (the Arabic-speakers still stump me a bit), though that includes two who died and two who lived but we haven't heard from.
Including the dead makes me wonder if I should include all nine outside victims - hmmm... no, they didn't all escape first. Some were soldiers taken first and executed for refusing, it's said... I shouldn't include the dead at all maybe?
Thoughts?
Perhaps this is a good place to note the presence of at least two UK based Libyan doctors at the Khamis Compound massacre. Quite what they were doing there is anybody's guess - not looking for signs of life in those charred bodies I suspect.
ReplyDeleteFirst: Dr Khaled Sherlala , consultant radiologist at University Hospital in Walsgrave quoted in the Coventry Telegraph of 1 September 2011.(note the ancient photo of him)
Apparently they
introduced new working patterns to treat the most seriously injured.
But without their help scores more rebels would have died before Colonel Gaddafi was overthrown
A better photo accompanies the Rugby Telegraph piece of 8 September 2011. which notes "He also came across the bodies of rebel fighters who had been massacred at a prison compound which was then set alight by Gaddafi loyalists."
As the BBC Reported on 4 Septemeber, Dr Sherlala also filmed footage of the aftermath of a massacre when a hangar was set on fire with prisoners inside.
The second doctor to visit the Khamis warehouse compound was Consultant breast surgeon Jamal Harousha Dr Harousha says in the Yahoo News article 6 December 2011,(note the date) "The day after the compound had been liberated, I was asked to go to a military base outside the city that belonged to one of Gaddafi's sons. When we arrived we saw the scene of a massacre.
ReplyDeleteAbout 150 rebel fighters had been captured and put in a cage. When the militia fled they set fire to the cage, - burning them alive."
In May , Dr Haroushi founded the Free and Justice Party (sic),Al Mostakbal (perhaps Freedom and Justice)
So the Doctor arrives at the warehouse on 24 August.
There is no evidence that Dr Khaled Aba-Oub, a consultant gynaecologist and the third doctor noted in the Daily Mirror article ever visited the Khamis compound, but he may have done.
Felix : “In May , Dr Haroushi founded the Free and Justice Party (sic),Al Mostakbal (perhaps Freedom and Justice)
DeleteSo the Doctor arrives at the warehouse on 24 August. “
*
In 1998, Arusi was arrested for being part of the then underground Muslim Brotherhood movement and sent to Tripoli's notorious Abu Salim prison; he was in jail for eight years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justice_and_Construction_Party
He takes over from Abdulrahman Ben Yazza who oversaw output restored to around pre-war levels of 1.6 million barrels per day after a virtual standstill during the 2011 war that ousted Gaddafi. Libya is now aiming for 1.72 million bpd by end-March.
"This is a big responsibility. We will try our best to push Libya to its new future," Arusi told Reuters after he was sworn in as minister at a government handover ceremony last week.
I think this may need to be added to the timeline. It seems to chime with the Daily Telegraph reported Rebel communique, reported on 25 August.. Over 140 were killed, no more than 10 survived. Doctors at main Tripoli Hospital know more...... following an earlier Misrata statement which almost certainly reported the same incident at 08.15 local time.
ReplyDeleteOne may assume that main (no definite article) Tripoli hospital might be the Central Tripoli Hospital where these three UK doctors worked according to the Daily Mirror.. One might also surmise that both Dr Harousha and Dr Sherlala visited the compound on 24 August together and that the latter's photographs were taken on that day. Dr Aba-Oub may also have been there on the 24th.
It is a curious use of resources when Amnesty International reported large queues of people at CTH on 25 August ,and no doubt the previous days too, and when the Abu Salim area was awash with bodies. Amnesty International additionally observed disturbing scenes at the Central Tripoli Hospital on 29 August.
TheAug.25 report sounds perhaps verbatim, but I'll double check for anything of value. Thanks.
ReplyDeleteI doubt hospital people were really involved at all at this point. It'sa handy way to suggest "oh, we handed them over to a hospital..." If asked, they'd say the 140 and the 150 are distinct, which is silly. But fighters and schemers had by the 25th decided to fudge away the old story and quickly devise another.
The two doctors are of at least peripheral interest either way. But it sounds like both saw the place after the burning, so I'm guessing about as everyone else was let in - just after official liberation on the 26th.
IF that could be shown wrong with confirmation of a visit any earlier, I'd be all ears.
Sorry, misunderstood. That verbatim part with no link was for context, not a new find. Zoing.
ReplyDeleteAdam, the doctor says the day after the "compound", by which I read Al Aziziya, was liberated.
ReplyDeleteAdam - re carbonised or charred bodies. A french blogger has analysed the photos of the dead, and compared them with bodies which have indeed been set alight with petrol, for instance. Have a look here at Operation Tea for Two: Arms d'un Genre Nouveau utilisées en Libye A conclusion is that it is a new weapon, certainly not through flammable liquid. Posted 28 August, the piece quotes the story appearing "two days ago".
ReplyDelete@felix : this is a very interesting article. I did try to translate a little bit :
ReplyDeleteTwo days ago, the press mentioned that "charred skeletons"were found in Tripoli. It was explained that Qaddafi's troops had killed and burned prisoners before fleeing. In general, when you flee, you have [need?] , if absolutely necessary, time to kill. On the other hand , to burn a body to the skeleton, that's another story.
The human body requires a lot of energy before all soft tissue are destroyed by fire. Even after a house fire that lasted for hours or aircraft accidents ending in hell, it is always possible to collect blood by pushing the needle deep enough in the body.
Pour gasoline or equivalent liquid on a pile of bodies,and this will only destroy their hair and most of their skin.Here are bodies burned with petrol.You can notice that the destruction of the bodies is at the surface.The bones aren't seen in any case
http://www.operationteafortwo.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/corps-brules-1.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-0-x2dbhKszE/TlodSylImyI/AAAAAAAAAIM/0BjgxurWz-4/s400/corps-brules-2.jpg
bodies burnt by gasoline
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-A9K0DPRU9fQ/TlodywcLpEI/AAAAAAAAAIQ/6tTZmy9HSx4/s400/corps-brule-tripoli-arme-1.jpg
bodies in the shed
One can notice that all the tissues , even the most deep ones are totally destructed.
Also notice that the skull is exploded at several places.This happens when the brains are quickly heatened and the steam blows up the brain box.{skull]This only happens when the content [ brains] are heated up very quickly.This happens when a tremendous energy suddenly is enforced [applied] to the bodies.
This was found on the victims of the Vesuvius in Pompeï .By the intense heat of the hot ashes of the vulcano the skulls had exploded.
http://www.operationteafortwo.com/2011/08/28/armes-d%E2%80%99un-genre-nouveau-utilisees-en-libye/
http://www.ausairpower.net/dew-ebomb.html
There might have been no need for any type of "new" weapon. Old and well established weaponery such as phosphorus grenades could account equally for the terrible injuries and condition of the bodies as evidenced.
DeleteI don't suspect anything fancy either. I hope this isn't an area we need to establish in detail, because I'm impaired when it comes to weapons. I could see flame throwers from the doorway, plus a fuel sprayer, just burning and re-burning as needed for a half a day or so. Far corners done least thorough, near the door done cleanest.
DeleteAfter you mentioned phosphorous grenades re: the Sirte convoy burning, I could suddenly see that here too. Other possibilities I'm sure exist without resorting to the fallacy so common in 9/11 "research" -appeal to unknown exotic weaponry.
But one dousing of gasoline and a fire set and a walking away, as the rebel sources seem to say, I cannot see doing this, not remotely.
The "confession" of the latest eyewitness unsurprisingly lays blame for the massacre squarely on loyalists forces. The longer prisoners of war remain in custody without trial and are subject to torture, manipulation and brainwashing, the more we can expect of the same kind of "confession". But the ICC doesn't seem to give a shit, even though or especially because it's investigators are the best qualified experts to conduct a proper if somewhat belated forensic analysis.
ReplyDeleteThat, I believe, is totally new - doesn't sound like the story of other guard "Laskhar" from the PHR report. I smell a new two-person category emerging. What a coerced bullshitter and weapons non-expert. Cigarette burns, speaks of beatings (unusual for a beatee) And a timeline non-expert. He doesn't know anything much about the alleged crime, it sounds, suffering from poor quality coaches.
Delete"I threw grenades on them after my colleagues doused them in petrol. We then locked the garage and left. We burnt them alive," Khalifa told AFP, of the massacre that he and four other Gaddafi soldiers carried out.
Fire was at least a day or two later, and petrol only then. Grenades don't usually start fires, even with gasoline, and they sure don't start a fire that burns people to cinders and bones like that. (flame throwers?) The doors were left unlocked - that's how 25-55 people allegedly escaped and survived, and the 12 or so around the yard escaped only to die.
And that's all in the most widely reported version of the completely fake atrocity. The number of soldiers (3-5 or unspecified) isn't established enough to call him off over that, but again IT'S ALL FAKE. (capitals directed at the world refusing to see the obvious) "Khalifa admits" Bullshit! Admissions are for real things!
Thanks for another tip that's not too late to make the final cut, the upcoming (unnamed group) shed massacre report of (February?) 2012.
BTW - Re flamethrowers: Libyan Army is known to have been equipped with flamethrowers. The Irish Republican Army obtained flamethrowers from Libya during the 1980s and used them on at least one occasion in 1989 against the British army of occupation. [Ref: O'Brien, Brendan (1999). The Long War: The IRA and Sinn Féin, Syracuse University Press, p. 279]. Also known is that Libyan Army arsenals were raided by the rebel rats at the outset of the uprising. I doubt though if the rebel rats would even have known how to operate the thing -- unless of course some helpful British SAS trooper showed them how.
DeleteI'm so free to tell my thoughts :
ReplyDeleteNato started poundering the base saturday at dawn.And the base fell then.
Some rumours occured some days after that Khamees was hit in Tripoli or on the way to Bani Walid.
But it is very possible that the smouldering remains are his and the Khamees Brigade.
The story a fire was started on 21 or 23 augustin the shed and bodies stay smouldering a week is really hilarious.
And when grenades were thrown inside : should a roof not fly away because of the air pressure?
Still seems to be some confusion here about grenades. There are two types of handgrenades: fragmentation (anti-personnel) grenades, and incendiary (phosphoros) grenades. Not to be confused with rocket-propelled (armour piercing) grenades. The grenades referred to in quote @CausticLogic above were probably phosphoros grenades -- which would not necessarily blow a roof off. Still, we are neither forensic nor weaponry experts, nor should we become too preoccupied as to the exact nature of the gruesome and criminal method employed to burn the bodies. They were burnt beyond recognition, and that's that. We know that for a fact. Meantime, where are the ICC forensic experts and investigators?
Delete@ afrikat :The longer prisoners of war remain in custody without trial and are subject to torture, manipulation and brainwashing,
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZTlbHUNXqo&feature=BFa&list=ULuCW7pe3j6U4&lf=mfu_in_order
psych torture
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYQGM6HgEjM&feature=BFa&list=ULjhHUX-60DD0&lf=mfu_in_order
torture misrata
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=pLlrJbDBpxk
من سجن بوسليم
The scientific methodoloy of psychological torture and its neurophysiological effects in the "turning" or "conversion" of war prisoners is discussed in this essay
Deletechivers who has hailed the rebels in misrata comes now with new stuff:
ReplyDeleteHere is the background: This submunition was in the arsenal of Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi’s military, and was fired at anti-Qaddafi rebels in the summer and perhaps again in the fall, part of the pro-Qaddafi forces’ last gasps. After the conflict ended, many more were found scattered near shattered bunkers in the depot near Mizdah. These apparently had been kicked out of storage when bunkers were struck by bombs from NATO or allied warplanes. (More on that here.) You can see the disposition of some of them at the depot, below.
It is a member of the cluster munitions family — one of the so-called submunitions carried inside a larger canister that opens in flight, releases bomblets and distributes them to the ground below.
This is about trying to get it right, so that the world will know more about who provided the Qaddafi government its arms,
http://atwar.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/02/01/can-you-name-this-cluster-bomb/?src=tp
in a militair forum about weapons used at Libiya I read something that may be connected with stuff above :
ReplyDeleteHe also revealed that HMS Cumberland launched her Lynx helicopter on a number of search missions to enforce the arms embargo.
The pods they can hang under helicopters with the capability to launch many small rockets
Other dropped shit chivers don't talk about :
white phosphorus in #misurata ?
oh last link [white phosphorus] not gonna work this way , try :
ReplyDeletehttp://www.twitvid.com/2YL67
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8g0MMFiP58
ReplyDeletewe have looked at this Benghazi vid,after the fall of the Benghazi katiba before .
When look at it again it has some simalarities with the shed tale : khadafi using special grenades. black people are named rats .black people have injuries beyound imagination.
Looking closer there appears a decisionmaker with black sleeves in the vid :
black sleeve the decision maker
http://i42.tinypic.com/2lkpfeg.jpg
http://i44.tinypic.com/21lol1z.jpg
black sleeve points at body in sack
http://i40.tinypic.com/24gvdl3.jpg
http://i42.tinypic.com/w2f4wo.jpg
black sleeve takes decision of a body/jordan they say
Thanks. I do remember quickly seeing this video. I didn't notice any of these things you did. What about African mercenaries burning these people alive causes Black men to get their necks cut open front and back? Strange and horrible things seem to happen always just before"protesters" and "freedom fighters" take places over.
DeleteCol Saleem al-Ferjani was appointed yesterday as chief of the Internal Security Organization (ISO).
Deletehttps://twitter.com/Morning_LY/status/543011176385634304
Col Saleem al-Ferjani is from Benghazi
11 Dec 2014
Awesome - above and bewlow this, nearly three years of dedicated work testified. I didn't review the new and old images yet - do you think this guy was involed in some of that? (ie, is there something worth the hassle of me pulling up and comparing pictures, etc.)? If so, I will. Cheers!
Deleteblack sleeve at the sacks with remains
ReplyDeletehttp://i40.tinypic.com/261bxg6.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/a58ur.jpg
http://i39.tinypic.com/51cyza.jpg
http://i44.tinypic.com/50ql5g.jpg
http://i39.tinypic.com/117zjnm.jpg
http://i40.tinypic.com/2czva82.jpg
http://i40.tinypic.com/300g09l.jpg
black sleeve : the anonymous small rocket introducer
ReplyDeletehttp://i44.tinypic.com/2a8htug.jpg
the anonymous black sleeve
http://i44.tinypic.com/mhen2d.jpg
http://i42.tinypic.com/eunjgo.jpg
black sleeve has a blue belt
http://i40.tinypic.com/359g3eg.jpg
http://i39.tinypic.com/znadmt.jpg
http://i39.tinypic.com/2r602v7.jpg
http://i44.tinypic.com/2yl90sx.jpg
they say the dead people are soldiers of the benghazi khatiba and rats
ReplyDeletehttp://i39.tinypic.com/fabnk8.jpg
black man neck cut 5/call him jordan
http://i40.tinypic.com/dpzv55.jpg
throath cut
http://i39.tinypic.com/nh07f5.jpg
throath
http://i40.tinypic.com/vghr95.jpg
body and throath/ no army underwear
But it is well known that Younis the defector gave free retreatment to the west to the katibasoldiers as he arrived in benghazi.
http://ozyism.blogspot.com/2012/01/we-can-only-watch-and-weep-seeing-nato.html
doctor with knife 0.37
Mohamed, a doctor from Al Jalaa hospital in Benghazi : We are still receiving serious injuries, I can confirm 13 deaths in our hospital.
@ caustic : the dry bed victims on bab al zizya side mentioned in wsj article 20 aug are clearly not these victims :
ReplyDeletehttp://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q62/chainsawmoth/Libyan%20Civil%20War/Khalet-al-Ferjan_pan3.jpg
the wall of the shed is visible here
JAMAL RAGAI MIGHT BE THE HEAD WITNESS OF THE SHED MASSACRE
ReplyDeleteON 24 OR 25 AUG:
-One morning in mid-June, Ragai was taken to a holding pen known as Yarmouk,
-Ragai was lucky: he was transferred from the Yarmouk prison, where the massacre later took place, to a smaller jail not far away, on the grounds of a construction company. He was there on the evening of Aug. 20,
-Early on the morning of Aug. 21, the guards opened the door of the cell next to Ragai’s and led out six prisoners. The six men were being executed. He got out, and began releasing all the remaining men, who fled the compound.
-Ragai told me he borrowed a car from a man he met near the prison and drove back to Tajoura
-Ragai gathered as many men as he could, and a large group of seasoned fighters from Misrata joined them. Soon they had a force of about 150 cars, and they drove west toward Yarmouk in an armed caravan.
-AT ABOUT MIDDAY, RAGAI SAID, HE GOT A CALL FROM ONE OF THE OTHER FIGHTERS ON HIS CELLPHONE. THE MAN HAD REACHED THE YARMOUK PRISON AND SEEN THE DESERTED GROUNDS."IT'S TOO LATE,'THE MAN SAID.'EVERYONE IS DEAD''
-Not quite everyone. Mustafa Atiri ESCAPED TWO NIGHTS BEFORE, along with about 15 other men [ 22 -23 aug]
Ragai's story contradicts with the story of the local rajub , who talks about snipers and militia the days after the 23. Or the story of the rebel who said that they reached the shed at friday noon,26 aug
http://i42.tinypic.com/keitr6.jpg
Amnesty already reported about it on 26 aug
Note : Ragai and Atiri seem to bE the only ones talking about women guards :
JAMAL RAGAI : There was a Chadian woman with a shaved head who used to beat the men on their genitals, several inmates told me. Her Libyan supervisor, also a woman, would watch these beatings approvingly,
Mustafa Atiri : after that there came mercenaries , soudan and chaad and 3 female officers
http://www.liberation.fr/monde/01012356724-en-libye-dans-l-effroi-d-un-charnier
Good catch, Hurriya, but not new here. Ragai is odd-his account suggests they had access on the 25th, as you say against the other accounts. He also contradicts others on how and when they escaped from Qasr ben Ghashir-Ragai says 21st, guy talking to Amnesty said 24th. That whole story, both versions, insane. BUT it doesput him back up in Tajoura after the 21st, not returning 'til;the 25th (if he even bothered after getting that call). He was nowhere near the massacre sites on August 22-24. Way up there, northeast, nothing to do with any of that.
DeleteRiiiight....
And yes, these two are the only ones popping to mind with the psycho-babble about emasculating black women. Very telling stuff.
@caustic : close reading :
DeleteSoon they had a force of about 150 cars, and they drove west toward Yarmouk in an armed caravan.
@Petri @ caustic :
ReplyDeleteyou mentioned somewhere :
arrest khadafi [ women ] guards
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mm_asFejK9s&feature=related
القبض على حارسة القذافي غرب طرابلس
arrest khadafi [ women ] guards
Uploaded by hamma198 on Aug 24, 2011
abandoned cars abu saleem :
فساد وإفساد جرذان الناتو في طرابلس
http://rapidscan.me/video/dJkYQ4O2xLo/flv/
watch black suv @ 1.05
blood @ 1.11
suv and body @ 1.16
don't know are same vids or addition
blogger since may 2012 ? y must hurry up study what it is all about. I think y don't understand what this blog is clearing up : injustice.
DeleteTo start in yr sphere I would recommand :
http://gardening.about.com/od/gardenprimer/ss/NewGarden.htm