May 21, 2022
(rough, incomplete)
May 25: I'm finally pulling down my entire post on this rather than trying to fix it in place. I'll be re-working it alongside a post on who controlled Bucha where and when. It will be some days at least.
I raised questions about the recent New York Times investigation and article: "New Evidence Shows How Russian Soldiers Executed Men in Bucha: Witness testimony and videos obtained by The New York Times show how Russian paratroopers executed at least eight Ukrainian men in a Kyiv suburb on March 4, a potential war crime." https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/19/world/europe/russia-bucha-ukraine-executions.html
I'd have to subscribe to the rag to read it there, but I read an archived copy where the videos don't work, saw the most relevant videos on Twitter, posted in a short thread by NYT freelance video journalist Masha Froliak, and had people share some other bits from other videos.
But I hadn't read the article when I first did this post, nor correlated everything well at all, and then I ran ahead assuming another video of the site was dated March 4. In comparison, that suggested the "Russians" seen arresting the 9 men earlier that day and the "Russians" seen there on March 5 were different groups, who seemingly fought a battle in between their occupations of the massacre site. That is, I thought I had Ukrainian false-flaggers playing Russians in charge at the murder time, then chased away by the actual Russians. But upon learning more, most logically, that video was from March 3, and fits fairly well with the NYT report. It's interesting in different ways I need to work out.
I can read the NYT without problems using extension 'bypass paywalls' in chrome and firefox. It's a bit fiddly to install but works great for NYT and WaPo
ReplyDeleteP.S. When I read the NYT article, it seemed pretty consistent. The underlying story is the men murdered were combatants from some local plainclothes militia. For unknown reasons a further man was released when he admitted to being a combatant. Examination of why these specific 8 men were killed could be interesting.
ReplyDeleteWhen 8 fighting age men are found hiding in a house right next to an obvious militant checkpoint, apparently getting them to ADMIT they're fighters is super-important. I finally read it, and Kiev is going after the tattler for high treason, the secret was so important. That all might make sense like some this turns out to (like he also gave names or details). But it strikes me as weird now.
DeleteWhere are the bodies shown near the fence in the drone footage? (I think a clearer video should be used as evidence the blue blob is that man's body but I digress)
ReplyDeletehttps://imgur.com/xlA1F4G
In the other drone footage
https://twitter.com/GeoConfirmed/status/1499845981411631104
isn't the vehicle shooting *the* checkpoint at 31 Yablunska st.?
https://static01.nyt.com/images/2022/05/13/video/00vi-144-checkpoint/00vi-144-checkpoint-jumbo.jpg?quality=75&auto=webp
They obviously have more drone footage of what was going on March 4. Unless the checkpoint didn't appear until March 3, Russia just drove past it the day before. The next day it's worth destroying... feels like something is being left out of the story
Hey, goof point on bodies by the fence. I did note some were killed inside, so maybe 8 could be killed, some inside, so less outside. The story might contradict that, but there seems to be no bodies in that spot.
DeleteFiring on tank is about at 31 Yablunska. Checkpoint driven past: some :"Russians" turn in there as well as passing it, coming from the east as Russians probably wouldn't. Seems kind of like they were just setting it up then.
NYT tells us the drone video on March 5 "showed the dead bodies" (plural) and that-
Delete"The bodies of the men killed in the parking lot and inside the building were brought to the courtyard and, together with the six other victims, would lie there for nearly a month"
There should be at least 6 bodies even if the others were not moved yet
Interesting too that the 'rounded up civilians' didn't have to have their heads covered and could just watch. Other accounts they were putting bags on people's heads e.g. Reuters March 3 "they began bringing men with white sacks over their heads".
They were sure to be seen shooting one camera, but leaving all its footage up to then, leaving another camera filming the same spot, other cameras filming the area, capturing a munch of witnesses made to stand there and witness the order to kill, to see the men, hear the shots, they let one guy go, and luckily failed to kill another, allowing yet another witness. That's one line of questions I have.
DeleteJust noticed I said "goof point." Of course I meant "good point." I sure gooded that one up.
Delete"The video seems plausible until you look in detail. There is a lawn in the background with the green grass, which means the video was made very recently an dnot in March. The first soldier is in uniform, but the second is wearing civilian shoes and an American helmet, there is also no bulletproof vest. The acting is also questionable, so we can conclude that this is a fake one." https://southfront.org/new-evidence-of-butcha-massacre-raises-suspicions-kiev-fakes-do-not-end/
ReplyDeleteI don't buy the grass point, can't say on the gear, but generally agree on the gist.
DeleteArman Soldin's full report filmed in Bucha on March 4 is here
ReplyDeletehttps://www.tf1.fr/tmc/quotidien-avec-yann-barthes/videos/20h15-express-guerre-en-ukraine-scenes-surrealistes-a-boutcha-a-quelques-kilometres-de-kiev-55514891.html
starts around 1 minute in
This is NE Bucha
Deletehttps://imgur.com/zpzWHwm
https://www.google.com/maps/@50.5549037,30.2492211,3a,75y,340.46h,92.07t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sSQlbPZIo62djnEbHuTxSBw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Not sure where the fire at "93" is
Still not clear how this connects, but ...
DeleteFire at 93 = the one just east of Y17 seen on March 3, tank driving by? We know where that is. Part of this was filmed around there the 4th and the fire isn't visible? If so, yeah, I was wrong to think that was the 4th.
I mean the house in the TF1 video that says "93" on the gate. I'm not sure where it is? (but def. on fire on March 4!)
Deletehttps://imgur.com/VF64Aj9
"93" is apparently in Irpin
Deletehttps://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/yevghen-zbormyrsky-is-comfirted-as-he-stands-in-front-of-news-photo/1238917608
There is a newer 'street view' picture of the HRW house (Jan 2022 if any help with this https://twitter.com/CL4Syr/status/1528582921233149953 )
ReplyDeletehttps://www.google.com/maps/@50.5245693,30.1868209,3a,45.1y,213.34h,84.56t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sAF1QipOQl_b53IqogP8JuDacTZ_fY68HtY6rH_LesF1c!2e10!5s20220101T000000!7i10560!8i5280
so hit from the north on March 5
https://www-bbc-com.translate.goog/russian/features-60988371?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp
DeleteThe image of 17 Yablunska on here has "02:05" in the corner-it was a video? Or means something else? Telegram and Facebook don't seem to put a leading zero on the video time.
Irpin - I was looking for the story about the 10 Ukraine special forces 'hunting Russians' near Kiev at the end of Feb. Instead - a bunch of Ukrainian stories that may or may not be true or relevant
ReplyDeleteFeb 26
'Russian special forces' in Irpin tell people they are "local defense forces" (i.e. no uniform)
https://twitter.com/Worldnews195/status/1497465343878787079
March 1
"people who look like locals shooting at other locals" in Irpin. Locals report strangers and special forces "take care" of them.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/locals-shooting-at-locals-kyiv-hunts-russian-saboteurs/ar-AAUtfO1
March 4
WSJ Ukrainian special forces in Irpin paywalled story
https://www.wsj.com/articles/ukraines-special-forces-hold-off-russian-offensive-on-kyivs-front-lines-11646417190
March 5
"deep" in Irpin?
https://twitter.com/S_B_R_News/status/1500122606061731843
March 8
Russians "in Irpin"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igwxTjkW2t0
March 20
Irpin territorial defense considered "special forces, disguised as homeless people" by Russia (i.e. no uniform?)
https://itvua.tv/news/pravozakhysnyk-i-zhurnalist-kostiantyn-rieutskyy-pro-irpinsku-teroboronu-vzhe-khodiat-lehendy/