Photographer Daniel Berehulak took a series of photos of the massacre site dated August 26, sometime in the mid-afternoon, from the general direction of sunlight. Image 2 is the only one I found useful for trying to set the exact time. External link, new window: http://www.zimbio.com/pictures/4j2SQVwCzEZ/Burnt+Bodies+Discovered+Tripoli+Mass+Killing/7l_03GCUoMV
An enhanced crop of this is inset at left. The men in the door are bathed in two types of light: ambient (from our left, mostly, and all sides of them but the front) and brighter, direct sunlight (apparently from our right/their left and somewhat above them). The door frame and even shadows inside will also help. But still, I can't decide on even a narrow range. Maybe another reader can help decide.
For now, I'm dealing with solar azimuth only, direction to the sun in its east-west arc across the sky. Solar altitude I can only say is above horizontal, so well before sunset. In the image below, the Google Maps image of the shed oriented to true north. The green line is an approximate line of sight within the shed. The yellow lines are possibly consistent sunlight directions shining towards the camera. The earliest is approximately 222º from north (southwest), with the others at 244º, at 267º, and as an outlier, 280º (just north of due west).
Anyone? Which of these four, or other angles within our outside that range, do you think best explains what the photo shows? I have the correlating times, and a reason for wondering. But just to keep it about the imagery, I'll hold off explaining until I or someone figures out what's the best reading among those.
Assuming the picture data are correct...DB was in Abu Salim on the 26th,(Tripoli Central Hosp the previous day,25th) and also here for a posed photo at an unrecognisable location.
ReplyDeleteI also note there is no sunlight on the bound feet of the mattress body. ( Looks like a sunny day in other Tripoli pics) Notice also the damp left leg in jeans which is later covered up as at 0.55 in Foley's video.
However, the Russia Today footage at 0.38,shot very early morning on the 28th,(?) also shows the damp leg, but shows also that the rope has been interfered with before Foley (and Berehulak) and there is damp around the left foot which has dried out for both Berehulak and Foley. So, my feeling is that possibly Berehulak visited late on the 27th...are there other mattress photos / videos to interpolate the date and time?? Or was the RT video shot early on the 27th before Ramsay of Sky??? The Telegraph video (Reuters??) is certainly 28th, showing Moammar painted out in red,post Sky visit. The view at 0.40 is indistinct But probably less than an hour later than RT. Thoughts?? Perhaps I need to view those France24 / Euronews vids for clues and other still photos of the feet.
Thanks! The Russia Today footage I've looked into - I thought I saw something interesting but don't think so now (at 1:22, a skull next to headless body #16, uncanny illusion but too small I now say). It's not on the RT Arabic Youtube channel. Quatchi Canada posted Aug 28 and there 8/29 (thanks, new posting). QC's says Aug 26 - video posting date? More likely presumption (silly) of day before massacre, video posted 27th.
DeleteBut maybe it was filmed on the 26th.
Your points -dampness: Good point. An effect of angle and lighting? No, that looks distinctly wetter in the video. Earlier on the 26th? A foot that buffed, can it be blood? Or rainwater? Or something else? Here's a though-the same fluid those feet are puffed up with. It could seepout later, and make the ground become wet after being dry.
Going by color of decay (quite inexact with bad video and middling photos set differently), I'd put this one last among the three.
Other images, yes, they're around. Haven't catalogued them here. The one DB #7 is confusing. The light seems indirect, almost coming more from the east, as if morning. The back guys reflects the sky north of the shed, it seems, as well as south, on his wet left forearm. Maybe sunset, no distinct sun direction, just ambient light on west-facing walls, illuminating from the east?
Muammar: I still can't recognize even that in Arabic. It's what's on the door to the left? Less visible in some shots?
date: if not the 26th, which is quite possible it was some kind of mix-up, the relevance of this exercise vaporizes.
But we still have rebel claims Khamis and even Muammar, Saadi, and Aisha Gaddafi had been at what must be this base, until they left about 4:30pm on the 26th. And the rebel claims theyconquered the place aboutnoon and smelled the burning bodies... so that was the point of wondering.
Hitting submit now, hours later.
At 1.09 in the RT video, there is also a lot of water around the body outside the guard house, photo no 5 of HRW who visited late afternoon on 27 August after Sky.
DeleteYou will see wa Moammar [and Moammar ومعمر] has been crossed out in red BETWEEN Ramsay's visit and HRW's !
I also notice something new....Der Spiegel, who have a similar doorway shot but with different actors, took a close-up of the east wall of the guard house. the Khamis 32 graffiti visible on the right of the HRW photo no 5 is seen to look slightly distressed, as if it has NOT been freshly painted. Look at chips of whitish colour. But this is no proof that the Khamis brigade was responsible for what was found there.
Pomomarev visited early on Sunday morning, 28 August. Click on side bar here for nice shot of the bound feet at that time.(also at All Voices) with rope position and damp patch.
ReplyDeleteThe shed exterior photo by him confirms the time as around when RT and The Telegraph visited. See A rebel fighter covers his face against the smell ... in this stream at AlAkhbar
DeleteYuri Kozyrev (and probably Abigail Hauslohner) visited during the earlier part of the afternoon of 27 August which would make that shortly after Sky News, according to the label on this photo of the feet. His doorway shot also shows light from a similar angle.
DeleteThe area around the feet is DRY and the rope tassel pointing south. However, Kozyrev's shot of the front loader with body in bucket driving north past the cement plant is dated 28 August.
I am now having significant problems with the chronology. The Telegraph video,(and the identical Andrew Raven/Reuters footage) shot early morning, must be from the 27th.The article was uploaded later that day. (do those crated bodies appear elsewhere than RT and DT?)
ReplyDeleteBut at 0.42 you see that "wa Moammar" is already painted over in red. Yet in the Sky visit by Stuart Ramsay, it has NOT YET been overpainted at 0.26 in the video. Did Ramsay visit on the 26th and was asked to hold over footage? (though Salim is in his blue...) We need screen shots of the graffiti.
Another point - in the Telegraph, there is a shot of the unusual yellow truck at 1.21, some kind of pumping vehicle. (Stuart Ramsay's visit was accompanied by a white water tanker). Or was the Telegraph video added to the article later? As above, HRW visited during the afternoon of 27 August and "wa Moammar" was already daubed over. We need accurate date 27 or 28 of those early morning pictures. Gilligan I seem to remember hinted he knew of the shed early on. If Quatchi posted on the 28th, that could still be later on the same day as transmission.
A side issue, but 1.08 in the Sky 2 video the tasseled end of the rope is directly south of the legs and there appears to be no dampness, though there is a pool at 1.11 near the body outside the guard house. CLOSE UP SHOT OF THE FEET BOUND WITH GREEN ROPE AT 2.17 with prominently displayed army jacket.
DeleteThe body in the box, apparently one of the charred ones brought out (making one more than we see, at some point) is in some other videos and images, I think, but I don't have it sorted out. The timeline clues here still elude me until I sit down with them and focus.
DeleteThe bodies of three men covered in blankets and flies lay just outside, as a fourth eyeless corpse rapidly decomposed in the heat. One of them had his ankles bound with green rope.
Delete"These merciless murders took place in the midst of Ramadan and those responsible should be brought to justice and punished," Whitson said.
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/breaking-news/evidence-of-libya-detainee-massacre/story-e6freonf-1226124827588?from=public_rss
"Assuming the picture data are correct...DB was in Abu Salim on the 26th,(Tripoli Central Hosp the previous day,25th) and also here for a posed photo at an unrecognisable location."
ReplyDeletehttp://i.thestar.com/images/ad/f3/3cd5079544efb436e22161f9a6c1.jpeg
the unrecognisable location is the shed area
http://i41.tinypic.com/24m7z9i.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/hu2dti.jpg
save vids and check they have complete free entrance and control of area
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fztrbyWSV2g&feature=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHgXntol98E
Great spot,hurriya. But where is that water tower exactly? Inside the base? Is another entrance to the Khamis base shown? Weapons are being looted from an abandoned base and the firefights are totally fake. This place was empty well before 26th I'm sure...
DeleteHm, just then, barely taking it, loyalists still around maybe, something going bang, nervous. Makes total sense to stage that on the 26th. From what I know to look for, I'm notsure it's the Yarmouk base or not.It could be-I only studied the front side and the shed area.
DeleteIt's on the 26th. Cool find.
I liked the other video we've seen of fighters storming the empty and battle-scarred base from the front gate. I don't remember if the date for that was clear.
@ felix :
Deletestreet behind the shed - entrance with red iron closure ??/ @ 2.21
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjJw-tvy0Ck&feature=related
second guard of khamees
http://news.sky.com/home/world-news/article/16057781
" the retreat of reporter and his rebels on 28 aug "
@hurriya - have another look here at the end of ths vid, around 3.12. No press or photogaphers anywhere to be seen. Date??? I wonder. That building with pitched roof is familar.
Deletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNH3Jj3Q3H4اقتحام معسكر اليرموك
@felix , its laughable theatre of the misrata brigade with their black suv's, the tripoli brigade has been there days before them , at least in the shed
Deletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ss7YOemgwY8&feature=related
اقتحام التوار 17 فبراير معسكر خميس الدي يعرف بالواء 32 معزز
this sight seeing was uploaded 29 aug
and the captured Nigerians were 28 inside or before that ?
well,we don't know unless there is a digital date stamp.
Delete@hurriya BTW I hadn't seen the Sky footage from Stuart Ramsay at the end of the video LIBYA: 'GADDAFI SON'S CAR WRECKAGE' 8/30/11 , Thanks. Cars travelling south or South west. Looks like middle of the day. Wonder why they burnt the other shed? Might be near the compound. Perhaps connected with that weapons find, featuring the mad staring wispy bearded man with the gap in his teeth, the only rebel from the Khamis shed, apart from Salim who appears elsewhere.
Deletefelix : can you find the 4th link of ramsay ? I did post it under label : the all over present reporter . may be 1 or 2 weeks before.
Delete4th???? 4th of what?? Je ne comprend pas. Is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tE-yT5VWxCw this it?
DeleteI lost the arabic vid link with shed area information , from which I took the pics. Was hoping that you recognised it.
DeleteAbout the feet @0.40 in BBC vid : I can't see them clear , same as if they placed a filter in front of it .
before the feet were normally visibly
thx for ramsay tarhouna link
don't know it is double , but I would like to recall these comments :
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLPNu9NQN9Y&t=33&oref=http%3A%2F%2Flibyancivilwar.blogspot.com%2F2012%2F01%2Fkhamis-brigade-shed-massacre-charred.html%3FshowComment%3D1326889856886
We have never been allowed to see inside the "guard house" at the eastern end of the shed. From some outside photos we can see that it too has been burnt inside. Why would the "Gaddafi" soldiers burn their own house?
In the Russia Today video, at 0:33 we see a burnt body inside a burnt chamber.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLPNu9NQN9Y&t=33
Earlier I thought this room was the smaller section of the shed. It could in fact be from inside the guard house. How could these Gaddafi soldiers kill and burn themselves?
Good point, Petri. The white man with red beard at 0.47 is of interest. Somebody similar was photographed by a flyover rounding up black people - certainly in one of the Ziling photos,and elsewhere.
Absolutely, and it is also worth recalling this sapient comment on a Guardian thread Aug 28 2011, as usual full of uncritical posturing from fake liberals ...
DeleteThere are horror stories which don't make sense. Ghaddafi soldiers could have killed anyone in Tripoli they wanted up to 20th August, yet now they are randomly killing groups of men? If these men were killed by rebels who now tell journalists they were killed by Ghaddafi soldiers, how would a journalist know?
and by the same writer on September 7
Questions that won't be asked by the press today:To the Military Commander of Tripoli:"Commander Belhaj, what recollections do you have from 11th September, 2001?"
"Commander Belhaj, what are your thoughts on Osama Bin Laden? Do you have any personal memories of him?"
"What is your estimate of the total deaths resulting from the attack on Tripoli?"
To a UK govt / NATO spokesperson:
"Could you explain how NATO's continuous strike sorties - there was one every half an hour yesterday - are within the terms of the UN mandate, which demands an immediate ceasefire?"
"What is your estimate of the total deaths resulting from the attack on Tripoli?"
"How many civilians do you estimate to have been killed or seriously wounded as a result of NATO strike sorties since 18th March?"
I read another interesting comment about Khamis army base 21 aug, might be Maya,vid is private unfortunately :
Delete@ahji Alex Crawford lives in Dubai and has worked in the region for years. She is probably fluent in Arabic
Here's her report from the Khamis army base on 21st August.
For me she is stating what she has been told, no close up on the file.
Note the detail that she tells us of what the rebels have found in reports which she doesn't have access to.
How long have they been there? How did the rebels know where to go to find such particular information?
If she can't read or speak arabic, she is relying entirely on the rebels as her source of information, the rebels who have a steady history of saying whatever benefits their position - true or not (e.g. the taking of Brega, the death of Khamis, arrest of Saif Ghaddafi, death of Younis, etc. . . )
Maybe she is fluent in spoken and written arabic. Is there any way to check?
Also, did anyone from Sky think it worth taking some shots of those docs. so someone could at least verify they say what is claimed in the report?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/organgrinder/2011/aug/28/sky-libya-bbc-alex-crawford-tripoli
@Petri : miss you & your sharp analysis
DeleteCan't find out. It is certainly difficult to read cursive arabic handwriting, rather than printing. Qatari ground troops probably very good at it. Notice this, uploaded July 2010...Training With The Afghan Taliban [Video] "Sky News' Alex Crawford has been given unprecedented access to Taliban militants fighting coalition forces in Afghanistan. " Nuff said....
DeleteJust been alerted to a sanitised account of taking Tripoli here from a name in the news in Syria just now.
And just to show that our press photographers who accompany people like Marie Colvin in Libya and Syria are totally impartial in civil wars, I bring you this photograph
"One account of rebel abuses comes from Alex Crawford of Sky News, a British broadcast network owned by Rupert Murdoch that has enthusiastically backed the “rebels.” The correspondent was embedded with the anti-Gaddafi forces and accompanied a unit that marched from Zawiya into Tripoli. “We report it as we see it,” she said. “We saw Gaddafi fighters who were tied up and executed. It’s war. This is what happens. Rebel retaliations here are really upsetting.”
ReplyDeletehttp://www.wsws.org/articles/2011/aug2011/pers-a29.shtml
-As I have my doubts about the reported date of the events
@ Yarmouk that the other Sky reporter gives , I have questions about honest reporting in the more early days too.
check @ 1.50 and @8.04- @ 8.10 black people killed &bodies quickly hidden for the camera with no press to help them
http://news.sky.com/home/world-news/article/15958004
23 march /Evidence Of Massacre By Gaddafi Forces
"There have been no other mentions in the UK media that we can find of this credible information challenging key claims justifying the war on Libya.
But shouldn't a media system that so eagerly advanced these claims against the latest target of Western violence be equally willing to publicise counter-evidence?"
http://www.envirosagainstwar.org/know/read.php?itemid=11106
@Hurriya watch this,http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkEg2p6zE_s and see if it doesn't make you sick. Fake fake fake
DeleteI'm long time sick of all these dramatic hot patatoe in the throat voices , never talked about all the thousands massacred black young men , never talked about all the men defending their country, burned by nato bombs.
Deletewonder if it is allowed in the UK to overthrow your country?
The big problem would be a Government.which was,for example, the wrong kind of democratically elected one. Then, the army would probably take over.Like Socialist, or anti US. People like this,who obviously had advanced notice of Op Mermaid Dawn as he spoke on 16 August. Chilling stuff - the military just love the new unconfirmed reports of faked information and pictures which now justify military intervention. And what is the purpose of mainstream journalism? To investigate these "unconfirmed reports"? No, they just retweet and reblog them. And travel around with people fighting governments which are recognised throughout the world (they exhange ambassadors) Check out the shady organisation Avaaz behind Syrian uprising...
DeleteInterviewer "what does success look like in Libya?"
Gen Pope:"A democratic Libya, self-governing self-determined and capable of looking after itself"
probably there is a hidden agenda :
Deletehttp://nsnbc.wordpress.com/2011/12/18/libya-the-evil-the-grotesque-and-the-ugly/
the New American Century Warfare
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=ROZ20110519&articleId=24870
Africa: Battleground For NATO's 21st Century Strategic Concept
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=27786
and here you can see the drive of their noble agenda :
Deletehttp://i43.tinypic.com/i3zxxu.jpg
Libiya was one of the richest countries and complete indepent . No debts , no IMF, no Worldbank
DeleteAfter 25 years , when the Libiyan oil is finished , the next generations will
"thank the Nato -Thuwars" for freeing their country into the fried chicken - debt culture
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wha9lTKN7Zg
USA's Petro Dollar Threatened by Gaddafi's Gold-for-Oil Plan
AND MOST LIKELY THE INVASIONS WILL NOT STOP :
IRAN
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/iran-moves-further-end-petrodollar-announces-will-accept-payment-gold-instead-dollars
Iran Moves Further To End Petrodollar, Announces Will Accept Payment In Gold Instead Of Dollars / 02/28/2012 13:22 -0500
QATAR
http://graphics.eiu.com/marketing/pdf/Gulf2020.pdf
Monetary union will be in place and there may be a shift from the dollar peg. By 2020
@hurriya - 1.50 et seq is staged imho. The dead African body / bodies at 8.04 - 8.10 are at the same place as the mess at 9.43 the next day (?) The cameraman knew what to look for...
ReplyDeleteThe man in bed at 9.30 is absurd... The only real truth occurs in those shaky but not fuzzy independent videos , rebel or otherwise, with conversations in the background and not gunshots. Everything else is suspect. The media is taken to see a show each time. The living are actors, the dead are not. Unfortunately the dead can't correct the lies being told over their bodies.
I like the well putness of that. Thumbs up for sad truth.
Deletehttp://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-14700876
ReplyDelete@felix : have you seen this before ? @ 0.40
Thanks! 0.33 - rope position two, tassel off to right, damp under legs. Filmed morning, Sunday 28th. but front shots of shed taken an hour or two later.. Maintenant, un petit cadeau pour vous...... all friends together.
DeleteNote the Spanish TVE1 video showing the feet of the mattress victim at 0.29 s. Los rebeldes aseguran controlar el 95% de Trípoli y la frontera con Túnez , the video featuring El-Hitri. It seems to be filmed around mid-day on August 27, shortly after Stuart Ramsay of Sky. Vehicle disposition similar.
ReplyDeleteThe area around the feet is DRY and the tassel is dangling centrally. Interviewer Erika Reija
Based on the shadows the sun must be very high up in the south or at the extreme left or right. No sunlight enters through the open door. Neither can we see (in the original image) any light passing through the open grid in the top part of the doors.
ReplyDeleteLooking at the lighting on the cloths of the two figures it seems they are about equally illuminated from the left and right. This would point to a sun shining from straight above. However, I am not sure the sun at its azimuth on August 26th or 27th would be so high as to prevent any direct light from reaching the shed. The roof above the door does not provide much of a shade.
Thanks, on-topic! The picture is confusing, that's why I askedfor other opinions.
DeleteThe sun does seem high, perhaps near its Zenith (high point, not azimuth, which is the lateral angles shown above)). There's light on both sides, but it looks like the east side is dimmer, so I think reflected light from the whitish ground and walls, with sun on the west side. It's not as clear to me now as it was, but the red pants show it best.
Mainly the light is behind them, looks like. From the shed orientation, even if the light was right behind them, it'd be a bit west of noon, and this seems west of that. See also light on the skulls, wheel rim shadow, and the shadow of the door frame - all suggest light from west of center.
Are the vids with coffins the most early ones ?
ReplyDeletehttp://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8727498/Human-slaughterhouse-discovered-in-Tripoli.html
On the place where later on you see the boy with jeans and orange blanket with face to ground, there was first another body :
http://i42.tinypic.com/9lk9k7.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/xor6sn.jpg
the unburned body
http://i44.tinypic.com/21o1ts9.jpg
Oh,,(sorry back off-Topic again) good spot Hurriyah....that is from the time of the Sky News visit but the blue pick-up blocks the view behind Stuart Ramsey. It looks like a bloated black body. One thought - might those pyrolysed bodies have been from grave robberies??
Deletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZ45gA_d-FI
Delete@0.21 unknown body again
clearly not the victim with blue jeans
I am trying to find out what Daniel Berehulak was doing on and around August 26th. Here are some other photos:
ReplyDeleteAugust 25th:
Tripoli Central Hospital
More hospital
...more
Rebels wave flag
Men meet roadside
August 26th:
Abu Salim Hospital
Abu Salim
Abu Salim
Rebels loot military compound in Tripoli
More looting at base
Rebel technical fires south on a main road somewhere
More shooting
rebel towards pro-Gaddafi positions
Capture loyalist on road to Yarmouk
Sometime:
Visit Gaddafi homes
Kill people
This is interesting:
TIME: Among the Loyalists: Despite Defeat, Admiration for Gaddafi
A pro-Gaddafi loyalist is interrogated after surrendering to Libyan Rebel soldiers on August 26, 2011 in Tripoli, Libya. Daniel Berehulak / Getty Images
This is the same black guy in the orange tank top captured on August 26th on Al Hadhbah Road, some three kilometers north of the Yarmouk military base. He is also seen on the Sky News video and discussed in this post.
@Petri ; what a good finds
Deletehttp://photos.denverpost.com/mediacenter/2011/08/photos-fighting-continues-near-gadhafi-seized-compound/#1
Posted Aug 25, 2011
It proves the rebels were in control of the shed area at 25 august.
on this site Fox is talking about a bombardment on 25 aug
http://www.jamejamonline.ir/newstext.aspx?newsnum=100852497597
the bombardment Fox is talking about could be :
thursday 25 aug 2011
http://nos.nl/l/tcm:5-1038274/
TANKS FOUND IN TRIPOLI
they say the tanks were found near tripoli Mitiga { kasar bin ghasir ?]
http://i40.tinypic.com/10fvpep.jpg
you couldn't find such storage place located @ Mitiga on google maps?
and felt it looks much like Yarmouk base ?
http://i43.tinypic.com/20f6yhy.jpg
Deletefresh Nato bombs early thursday 24 aug
Bombing inside the Yarmouk base
Deletehttp://i43.tinypic.com/2mg88b9.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/esrxh0.jpg
Here's a fly in the ointment..http://imgfeed.pictopia.com/viewdetails/item/7137080/. Or indeed Whatever, the former is a nice study in shafts of sunlight.
ReplyDelete(cf Abu Salim Hospital or again) I don't understand it.
forgot the latter..http://imgfeed.pictopia.com/viewdetails/item/7140649/
DeleteOkay, I see why that's a fly in the ointment. It's not the most important ointment. Berehulak there on the 26th could well be a mix-up, and likely is, considering no one else was there that day. Even relative insider Saad Basir apparently didn't get there 'til the 27th (note large number of journalists descending, but still "later that week." I'm sure not gonna argue Baz was there on the 24th.
DeleteOn the Baz photos, they're said created on August 24, 01:58:37 in all cases. Two am? Clearly not. All the same time? Clearly not. Somehow the start time of his time shooting in Tripoli got mixed up with creation date is my best guess.
Baz is there quite late in the afternoon.
DeleteThe Berehulak photo DB7 (shed imagery) at http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-08-29/libyan-rebels-advance-on-sirte-amid-protests.html dated 28 Aug (must be wrong) is clearly taken at a time of high sun judging by the patterns made on the bodies near to the car wheels. Perhaps even mid-day. cf. BL7 of Benjamin Lowy which seems from slightly later in the afternoon.
ReplyDeleteAn unrecorded (?) photo - not BL3 - by Benjamin Lowy shows perhaps mid-afternoon lighting conditions on 27 Aug.
28th maybe is wrong, isn't it? Trying to create an average where they're all the right date?
DeleteThe Lowy image is BL5, was just looking at it for smoke. Two spots at least wew smoldering that day-those bodies there, and the SW corner, which was still smoldering the 28th.
Time: The Berehulak one, mid-day-grating light only reaches front rims. So maybe the 28th is right. Lowy, hours later, grating light farther in, sun much lower to the west. Sunset was about 7:35, so I'd say around 6 pm.
DB1, if shot on the 27th, should show smoke rising from either spot. I see haze, but no sign of plumes. RT saw the same smoke in both spots on the 27th (am, correct?). Telegraph captured the corner at least (making a short videoon this). Why not DB, unless it really was the 26th, and they were re-smoldered before the next day's press conference?
Gone and confused myself again. Anyone?
Oh yeah, and that orange tank-top "mercenary" detained near the Yarmouk base, I think it's been shown, taken on August 26... DB took that photo. So he was nearby...
DeleteImage 67/98 here and wherever else it's more convenient
I think, comparing sunlight patterns, Berehulak must have been there twice (why?) - once at midday (DB7) and once very early or late - no patterns of grating above doors (your title photo above) The short kid with orange pants doesn't figure elsewhere (Hurriyah???) but there again the rebel gunmen seemed to let a whole stack of "locals" wander round the compoud with the shepherded press. Was it an all ticket event?
DeleteI have two photos that are taken around noon, both show light entering through the grating. (the Berehulak image at Bloomberg pointed out by felix is one of them.) The shadow cast by the lower edge of the door is very similar to what is seen BL5 by Benjamin Lowy and other photos taken by Yuri Kozyrev and Ron Haviv at the same minute. I still cannot explain why direct sunlight is not entering the shed.
DeleteThe date can be determined. There is a red plastic bag visible through the opening under the door on the left (east) side. From the outside they are seen under the ladders leaning against the door. They first appear around 8 am on August 28th, along with the plywood coffin and two other cardboard boxes. The plastic bag is not there on August 27th.
Residents of a village just outside Tripoli had alerted rebel forces to smoke billowing from a compound adjacent to Yarmouk military base which had, until recently, served Qaddafi’s army.
Delete[Three days later the warehouse, used as a makeshift prison, was set on fire but the cause was unknown. [26? aug]]
Upon arriving, Mustafa made inquiries about what had happened from rebel forces outside the gates
As more rebels arrived on site...
By now, news of the atrocity had spread through Tripoli’s grapevine and locals began arriving at the crime scene
@felix : didn't see yet the orange pants , will beat him in mind
bear
Delete@Petri I think the subject photo was taken late on Friday 27th.But not entirely sure. Perhaps after the red gas bottle was left by the door. Reason: by 28th morning, the legs of the mattress body outside are now surrounded by a large wet patch, not present on the 27th (reason unknown - urination by a rebel on the body???) Also on the 28th, the rope has been interfered with cw 27th. I don't think there were visitors in the later afternoon of 28th Aug.
DeleteSo, the absence of shadows implies to me that it is taken very late afternoon 27th or very early morning 27th. The red gas bottle discounts the latter. Did Patrick Baz photograph the feet? His visit was fairly late in the afternoon, but with shafts of sunlight entering the shed. But how late would it need to be for no sunlight to enter the shed in the afternoon?
A real mystery. I assume that the feet and shed interior were from the same shoot.
WHAT HAPPENED IN YARMOUK SEEN WITH OTHER GLASSES :
ReplyDeleteThe barracks of the 32nd Brigade, Moammar Gadhafi's elite force led by his son Khamis, is located about 800 meters from the Khellet Ferjan compound.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,783020,00.html
On the other side of the yard is an area with warehouses. Rafaii says that the regime supposedly used them to house mercenaries from sub-Saharan Africa.
The soldiers of the Khamis Brigade often played loud revolutionary songs, he said, adding that the area's residents avoided walking past the barracks. The Khamis Brigade reportedly moved into the area shortly before the uprising and forced some of the neighboring residents out of their homes. Those houses now stand empty.
-William Osas, a 32-year-old Nigerian, said he and other Africans had fled to a farm nearby to escape the fighting, and the men were detained while they were looking for food. Reporters from The Associated Press visited the farm and found hundreds of Africans living there, including many women.
-Not far away, I found a family still living in their house, one of the few that had not abandoned the area.Their house was large and clean and cool, an unexpected refuge in that desert full of dead bodies and burned buildings.
Ahmed Zaydan told me Khamis Qaddafi’s soldiers had taken over the entire area in the preceding months. Huge trucks had arrived at all hours of the day and night, stockpiling weapons in preparation for the city’s defense against the rebels
Perhaps there was such a plan, but it seems possible that Qaddafi’s last loyalists, lacking money and support, abandoned it.
BOMBING THE WAREHOUSES :
DeleteThe SA-24 ‘Grinch’ missiles were moved out of Tripoli when the Nato bombing began and hidden in farm buildings and warehouses, with other missiles, land mines, plastic explosives, mortars and rocket-propelled grenades.
But after Tripoli fell to rebels last month , THE WEAPONS WERE LEFT UNGUARDED.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2034678/Libya-Nato-wont-block-Gaddafi-escape-bombing-convoy.html
http://msnbcmedia3.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Slideshows/_production/ss-110303-libya-tabbed/ss-110801-libya-august/ss-110809-libya-01.grid-7x2.jpg
bombing furnaj area aug
http://imgupld.lunaticoutpost.com/graphic/images/2011/August/21/5CFC_4E511C8D.jpg
http://www.magnumphotos.com/image/C.aspx?VP3=TranslateURL&OriginalURLForRewriting=image/NYC116097.html
LIBYA. Tripoli. August 23, 2011.
Reporter Andrew Raven/Reuters : The base was override at tuesday [ = 23 aug] , the day tripoli felt
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xkrjyf_libyan-rebels-discover-bodies_news#rel-page-2
A NATO official, who asked to not be named because he was not authorized to speak publicly on the matter, said 575 surface-to-air missiles, radar systems and sites or storage facilities were hit by NATO airstrikes and either damaged or destroyed between March 31 and Saturday. He didn't elaborate on the specifics about the targets.
http://security.blogs.cnn.com/2011/09/07/exclusive-libyan-missiles-looted
WHO IS TAKEN AND BURNED BEYOUND RECOGNITION AFTER THE WAREHOUSES WERE LEFT UNGUARDED?
DeleteThat night, according to the witnesses, they took them and they put them inside and they put, you know, the small bombs inside, about five, six bombs inside, and they start shooting them.
http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2011/s3305214.htm
Three days later the warehouse, used as a makeshift prison, was set on fire but the cause was unknown. HRW said it had seen the charred skeletal remains of about 45 smouldering bodies on Saturday. At least two more corpses lay outside unburned.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/08/29/libya-idUSL5E7JS0VN20110829
"The [warehouse] was already burning when the rebels came," he said, "but I didn’t see how it happened. I just saw it when the rebels came; it was already burnt, and black smoke was coming out. I left around sunset yesterday [August 26]."
The farm is well photographed - Sergey Ponomarev for example too a number of pictures there. I think others must have visited. I do not see any of the Alex Thomson 9/10/11/12 in the Farm photos.
DeleteNO rebel farm owners , but also no loyalist owners of farms would house hundreds of black men in fighting times.
DeleteI think that beside the guards guarding the weapon depots also the farm owners are taken and rounded up in the shed
The Yarmouk base started remove weapons to loyalist farms and warehouses near the base after Nato bombing.
I suppose women of the farms were send to save places.
What worries me most is that some reports talk about 7 young boys who also were burned.
Here you can see an small airplane found on a farm :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yydyoon9Rrk&feature=related
Uploaded by 17ntc on Jan 20, 2012
الطائرات التى وجدت فى مزرعة فى خلة الفرجان
The Ponomarev photos seem to show a clearance (one of the pics, African migrant workers seen after they were asked to leave the farm where they used to live in Tripoli has a Khamis shed lane feel to it - are they going in that articulated tipper truck (?) alongside?) of a temporary displaced camp during Gaddafi times. But the photographers are being taken to watch it. The migrant prison /school prison photos started to appear about the very end of August, beginning of September.
Delete@felix : looks like ressemblance between the stuart vid shed and the place where the African migrants stayed :
Deletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjJw-tvy0Ck&feature=related
shed @2.57
watch the end of the vid : some rejustice is never pleasant
http://i40.tinypic.com/28m24jd.jpg
for exact locate the place : watch the electric net
http://i41.tinypic.com/2yywpch.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/34dkh6x.jpg
HRW should do research as PHR can be considered to have too close ties with not objective parties :
Mass grave Abu Saleem
Moez
Libyan forensics team highly skilled and working to exhume according to international standards with international observers
they’re not digging this particular grave yet. We do have expertise – PHR visit said exceptional team
the forensic lab team from #tripoli are there. They are considerably capable of dealing with it appropriately
the holes look awfully fresh, rebels claim they did n't dig them
Deleteif the holes were digged before overthrow , it is probably for hiding weapons ,bc the shed can be seen as 1 of the weapon depots, as early testimonies of locals confirm.
there were no working ground mover machines probably not true , bc there were many
http://i39.tinypic.com/ap7gg6.jpg
http://i40.tinypic.com/bge0zr.jpg
http://i42.tinypic.com/102rrbr.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/2wn1k3s.jpg
http://i44.tinypic.com/rm39uf.jpg
http://i42.tinypic.com/2u423de.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/15hjrt4.jpg
http://i42.tinypic.com/8z3d4h.jpg
http://i44.tinypic.com/o0yzb8.jpg
We understand that Libyans want to find the missing and give victims a dignified burial, but digging up graves without forensic experts present can destroy evidence and make it more difficult to identify the bodies,” said Peter Bouckaert, emergencies director at HRW. The sentiment was echoed in a subsequent statement by the ICRC.
@Hurriya thanks - I will add that Giulio Petroco pic of the migrants' farm visited by Ponomarev to the Thomson page..perhaps there are more.
DeleteYes, that road at 2.27 in the Sky Gaddafi's son's car wreckage video could very well be the africans' farm shed. area.
@The aircraft on the farm - labelled Khilet Ferjan - is a Libyan Air Force American Chinook CH-47 helicopter of eight had been bought from Italy. See here
DeleteHOW SPECIAL FORCES WORK :
ReplyDeleteAt about midday, Ragai said, he got a call from one of the other fighters on his cellphone. The man had reached the Yarmouk prison and seen the deserted grounds. “It’s too late,” the man said. “Everyone is dead.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIJ4vU6mf0Y
@ 3.03 Inside Yarmouk Base a dozen ID's of UK Special Forces , connected to this base
http://balkanblog.org/2011/10/11/sas-mi6-british-sas-terror-operation-balkan-irak-pakistan-libyen/
SAS - Mi6: British SAS Terror Operation: Balkan, Irak, Pakistan, Libyen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vs6DcoqtXGY&feature=related
US AMERICA'S SECRET KILLERS ( DOCUMENTARY )
http://www.armyrecognition.com/august_2011_news_defense_army_military_industry_uk/british_and_french_special_forces_with_libya_rebels.html
British TACP team shown with their equipment
The panel led by Canadian judge Philippe Kirsch says anti-Gadhafi forces also committed serious violations “including war crimes and breaches of international human rights law.”
ReplyDeleteIt says the human rights abuses by former rebels are continuing.
The panel says it was unable to reach conclusions about NATO bombings that resulted in civilian casualties or the circumstances surrounding the deaths of Gadhafi and his son Mutassim.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/un-expert-panel-concludes-gadhafi-forces-rebels-committed-war-crimes-in-libya/2012/03/02/gIQAEtPcmR_story.html
20 bodies, plus twelve? I had 12 plus one. Thanks for the Barker piece, it's new. Another "Salem Rajab" appearance. Dated Aug. 30, maybe that morning, or from the previous day when ABC shot video there. There's a downloadable MP3 audio for it too!
ReplyDeleteAnne Barker audio discussed here,http://libyancivilwar.blogspot.com/2011/09/tripoli-massacres-53-skeletons-witness.html Jan 19.
ReplyDelete@felix : not discussed , mentioned by FELIX
ReplyDelete@ felix : Two questions : area ?????
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4u-ZkvYU0B0&feature=BFa&list=ULw4Vdw1wxLsE&lf=mfu_in_order
كتيبة محمد المقيريف المسؤولة عن حماية القذافي
22 aug
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNH3Jj3Q3H4
اقتحام معسكر اليرموك
@ 054 green doors : building beneath bridge abu saleem ???
@Hurriya - think a variety of areas, as listed on the maps in the video. There is not much about the Mohamed Magarief Battalion, named after the elderly prominent 1980s leader of the CIA backed NFSL and resident in the US since 1991. The NFSL was responsible for a coup attempt in 1984 at Bab Al Azizia. More info here and here. Also translated as Dr. Mohammed Yousef al-Mgaryaf
ReplyDeleteElsewhere, though, March 3 2011, we read of the Brigade of Mohammed al-Magarif, the head of Gadhafi’s personal guard Seems a strange name for one...
His son, Dr. Tarik Yousef el-Magariaf is a Harvard educated global economist. There are a couple of YouTube videos of the Magarief Battaliion. E.g. this one!
@0.54 - I thought all this from 0.50 onwards was outside the Khamis barraks at Yarmouk. Note the tent across the road at 1.50....
ReplyDeleteFrancois Mori was taking photographs in the area of the base on 26 August. "Gadhafi loyalist sniper on a wheelbarrow" (!!!) which illustrated the article, Grim evidence of fighting’s toll becomes clearer
ReplyDeleteBy Anthony Shadid and Kareem Fahim / New York Times News Service
Published: August 27. 2011 4:00AM PST [Shadid died in very mysterious circumstances in Syria in February 2012 - allegely a horse-related asthma attack] However, the photo appears here with the additional title ...during an attack on a building in Salah Edine district in Tripoli, Friday August 26 2011
The background looks like the landscape directly opposite the Khamis base. It is also absurdly posed.
@ felix : grim evidence :
DeleteRebels said Gadhafi loyalists had killed them as they celebrated his fall. But one resident said they were his fighters, slain by rebels.
As he spoke, a rebel approached him, saying he was not authorized to speak.
@ felix : the deleted vid mentioned :
ReplyDeletefighting Gamies Brigade , day of liberation
مقطع فيديو لجتت تلاته عناصر من افراد كتائب القدافي التي كانت متمركزة في اللواء 32 معزز في منطقة خلة الفرجان الواقعه في جنوب غرب طرابلس العاصمة و كما يبين المقطع احدى الجتت متفحمه و الاخرى مصابة بطلق ناري اتر اشتباكات وقعت بين جيش التوار و كتائب القدافي التي كانت تحرس المعسكر .
It could be related to vid :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4u-ZkvYU0B0&feature=BFa&list=ULw4Vdw1wxLsE&lf=mfu_in_order
كتيبة محمد المقيريف المسؤولة عن حماية القذافي
22 aug
And 26 aug in that area the fighting was all over :
http://felixfeatures.photoshelter.com/image/I0000WCLf_LGC8VQ
WDA01407LIB
People dismantle a flag in the neighbourhood of Khaled el Furjan in Tripoli.
"think a variety of areas"
but looking at that junction , they are tariq abu saleem , aren't they?
@ felix :@0.54 - I thought all this from 0.50 onwards was outside the Khamis barraks at Yarmouk
ReplyDeleteAnd then they arrive to the location of hundreds Africans, who have no place to go, with all their heavy weapons .
And then ?
Before the mass grave. Baboons surrounded the man. [south tripoli?]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiEd4zmFMTU&feature=relmfu
@Felix – Here is another photo of the wounded "sniper" in the wheelbarrow.
ReplyDeleteThis story also seems to be related.
Thanks Petri - that's a scream. First they are wheeling him one way, then the other. Perhaps they are trying to disorient the "sniper". Psychological wheelbarrow warfare.
DeleteTHIS DESCRIPTION WAS GIVEN :
DeleteAug. 26, 2011 /Libyan rebel fighters carry a wounded sniper, a Gaddafi loyalist, during an attack on a building in the Salah Edine district in Tripoli./Francois Mori / AP/PHOTO 138
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/france-says-london-will-host-political-talks-next-week-on-libyas-future/2011/03/23/ABUKXew_gallery.html#photo=138
BUT "THE SNIPER "IS :
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/world/africa/2011-sept-libya-slide-show.html#204
Walid Musbah, center, a self-proclaimed Qaddafi volunteer fighter captured by rebels in Tripoli, was helped into the back of a pickup truck by rebel fighters. They brought him to the scene of an alleged execution of rebel fighters by Qaddafi loyalists near the Bab al-Aziziya compound. Mr. Musbah was said to have witnessed the executions and he brought the rebels to the location where the bodies were dumped, but no bodies were found.
http://i42.tinypic.com/2cff7mb.jpg
HE WAS DRIVEN AROUND in the Salah Edine district : PUBLISHED ON Thursday, August 25, 2011
http://www.wenatcheeworld.com/news/2011/aug/25/libyan-rebels-claim-victory-south-of-tripoli/
http://wenatcheeworld.media.clients.ellingtoncms.com/800963d859f34aff82f90dadc1690103-0834f042900a4374b5ed047f6b3e366f-15_t310.jpg?fea3b5f97b151dfb0b2dafe96b67ccc3bb6495b2
Libyan rebel fighters carry a wounded Gadhafi loyalist sniper on a barrow during an attack on a building in Salah Edine district in Tripoli, Libya, Friday, Aug. 26, 2011. (AP Photo/Francois Mori)
The Associated Press
libyan rebel fighters take position during the attack on a building, at right, to find a Gadhafi loyalist sniper in the Salah Edine district in Tripoli, Libya, Friday, Aug. 26, 2011. (AP Photo/Francois Mori)
http://www.arabtimesonline.com/Portals/0/Images/2011/aug/28world.jpg
The Associated Press
http://www.arabtimesonline.com/Portals/0/Images/2011/aug/28world.jpg
Deletethe same building is on a vid on which somebody returns to the place , steps in a room and then to the corridor and explains to journo that loy soldiers came inside the building and threw grenades at his friend. building riddled.
cant find the link , anyone ??
Thanks to Petri's image search - copy and paste the link into Google images search
Deletehttp://www.arabtimesonline.com/NewsDetails/tabid/96/smid/414/ArticleID/173151/reftab/69/t/Libyan-rebels-looters-target-Gaddafi-family-homes/Default.aspx
Salah Edine - you're right - same photo shoot as the sniper in the wheelbarrow - fake attacks...
The sniper in the wheelbarrow is that Musbah guy? No, I don't think so.
DeleteThe areas in the photos are the same? I could well buy that.
Injured in fighting just then? Maybe, but not at the base, in any battle.
Wheelbarrow area being across from the base: could be, no time to check. Anyone else?
That square communications mast ought to be identfiable from the Arab Times article. (Musbah photo, nothing like the wheelbarrow man, is by Moises Saman)
DeleteI have been trying to figure out what this "Salah Edine" district is. Evidently it is a reference to Saladin or Ṣalāḥ ad-Dīn. So far I have only found the Saladin apartment complex on Al Hadhbah Road:
Deletehttp://g.co/maps/wtqrh
Here i a fresh Facebook tweet with a reference to the place:
Lice Sa Poternice
#Libya S.O.S., #Important: the #resistance to the youth in the area of #Salah al-Din-take a discernible caution. When we toured the area we found two car bombs.. God save our heroes
The area where they are digging might be related to the wheelbarrow man , who wanted to show to the rebels where bodies were buried, but none bodies were found
Deletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiINDNNKzWc&feature=related
Gaddafi hiding munitions dumps and portable tv station in civilian homes 2 9 11
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SmnonHhFo0&feature=related
A mystery : al arabiya talks about a weapondepot found in Yefren, but it looks like a weapondepot in the shed area of tripoli
the man with the ridiculous baret @ 1.14 sounds very english
Interesting upper video ...at 1.12, narrator mentions Khalit Al-Furjan.
DeleteBeret man is North American. "just last week around 50 burnt bodies were discovered nearby", so it must be in the area near the Khamis warehouse. I wonder if the report meant anti-Gaddafi forces FROM Yefren? Original report here
@Hurriya, @Felix – The grave site is said to be in Umm el Ghindel, 100km east of Sirte. The location is discussed in another post and
Deletemy comment there.
@petri - The diggers and blue van and sheds amateur footage looks like Tripoli suburbs (upper vid). Lower Al-arabiya video is as you say, Umm el G.
DeleteA final wheelbarrow photo from the same set up is found at the chinese site: bbs.baotounews number 1109070630f02bec9099d65405.jpg
DeleteGreat photo here from Jeroem Oerlimans showing late morning 28 Aug lighting , and the bullet holes on the inside wall of othe shed. The photo of Williams Daniels (see Babi Amr,Homs Syria late Feb 2012) shows his visit is late pm , 27 Aug. as does his image 7.
ReplyDeleteOerlimans' close up of the bound feet thus can be timed late morning 28 Aug, with ground staining not present the day previously.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZ_ZISJ2ECw&feature=related
ReplyDelete0.58 9 nigerians , probably @ entrance farm
طرابلس:مخازن سلاح وجثث متفحمة ومرتزقة
Note : the green blanket victim : above the shoulder the blanket is flat
btw : has anybody ever gave a reason why the other part of the shed and also the guard/guest house is burned?
http://i43.tinypic.com/oa52fo.jpg
@Hurriya - the clips are mainly Daily Telegraph , but have you seen the section between 0.27 and 0.30 anywhere else? Is it unshown Telegraph footage? The feet and green rope are in 28 Aug state.
DeleteGood point re guardhouse.
Looking at the Al-JwarhFreeMedia17 Video, shot around mid-day, 27 August, one sees the Moammar graffti has alredy been painted out, shortly after Stuart Ramsay's visit. The large yellow pump (?) vehicle is present. Similar time to Spanish TVE1 - though I don't think they show the graffiti.
ReplyDeleteThe first sky vid shows the green blanket victim without green blanket
ReplyDeletehttp://i39.tinypic.com/17wdw7.jpg
http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q62/chainsawmoth/Libyan%20Civil%20War/Tripoli_Salaheddin_1.jpg
green blanket
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/world/africa/2011-august-libya-slide-show.html#56
http://i43.tinypic.com/97uyid.jpg
no head ?
http://i42.tinypic.com/35ce5q0.jpg
Bryan Denton visits late afternoon, 27 Aug, from Shed interior to doorway photo., charred remains of 46 bodies
Deletewhy all this wet around the orange blanket victim?[ who lays straight on his matress @
ReplyDeletehttp://i.thestar.com/images/84/e5/7f0dec3f49cb8250f1b11d65d42a.jpeg
http://bryandenton.photoshelter.com/image?_bqG=56&_bqH=eJxdj91KAzEQhZ.me1fYXRqoC7lIM7EO3U0kP5W9GqwUrAjaarv27U3WoqlzEc75Ts7APGym0AW53dcDtq05n_cvrJ6SXN0NTcVmDSubqozTIIGT3B9272.vuwLJgfBqwhZdN2HAy3mGABLKQB8nobqsqojVdfUmQz9VgAz9K0v0_bjbxzgJaYL2tid0JlljUemYodHJoiOrWiWcgou9z70z1nMr9KoY7yOhgX9GHZyyhMBDuv14mh39lz1t5kOM1mh9EC2JpdKyT58KkgvCuDhWLzL8Snv7J7skhfT8Y_t4eHou1mN7md5vcRZvdg
http://i39.tinypic.com/2vj223p.jpg
ReplyDeletedoes the left- corridor- victim lay here in front and not in middle of corridor?
http://www.enduringamerica.com/storage/2.jpg?__SQUARESPACE_CACHEVERSION=1314449955463
@ felix : here the roof between the 2 buildings is visible
note : the second body lays halfway the corridor
http://i43.tinypic.com/in4y7a.jpg
pantalon of left victim sleeping in his underwear
http://i44.tinypic.com/fa4jgz.jpg
underwear or pantalon? left underleg missing
@ Hurriya - that foot,2.25 at Sky video 2, white, you're right, at front of corridor, perhaps 9.30-10.00 light,much earlier (c.f 1.08 in the video). Explanation???
DeleteRamsay: "...it actually doesn't matter though [whether the charred bodies were soldiers or civilians or a mixture] because in the final days of the regime,these people were gunned down and were set on fire in cold blood." No forensic evidence whatsoever for that statement. And of course there is none left.
http://i44.tinypic.com/2n16fbt.jpg
ReplyDeleteno door to be seen in second shed place
unburned soldier body?
http://i39.tinypic.com/egeash.jpg
no doors
http://i42.tinypic.com/2eahxfr.jpg
a strange iron subject @ the left of second shed room entrance
http://english.al-akhbar.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/6cols/photoblogs/libya_pic_4_0.jpg
doors are closed
http://i41.tinypic.com/xor6sn.jpg
ReplyDeleteThe bodies of three men covered in blankets and flies lay just outside, as a fourth eyeless corpse rapidly decomposed in the heat. One of them had his ankles bound with green rope.
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/breaking-news/evidence-of-libya-detainee-massacre/story-e6freonf-1226124827588?from=public_rss
Ramsay said he had also seen the bodies of two soldiers, with their hands tied behind their backs
I didn't see soldiers, may be a half burned soldier in the never showed second room of the shed.
The orange blanket victim and the green blanket victim wear jeans.
The man @ the left in the corridor between shed and guardhouse has pants or underwear.
The man in the screenshot at top also seems to wear pants or underpants
http://wrltzr.posterous.com/gaddafis-gruesome-massacre-photo-gallery-life
ReplyDelete@ caustic : all Life photo's disappeared. were they the 1st to publish the orange trousers?
felix March 3, 2012 at 10:00 AM : the Brigade of Mohammed al-Magarif, the head of Gadhafi’s personal guard :
ReplyDeleteThe German government has said the training was provided by a private German security firm that trained guards for Libyan leader Moammar Khaddafy.
April 2008 SOURCE Geo-Strategy Direct;4/23/2008, p3
http://connection.ebscohost.com/c/articles/31801988/germany-providing-security-training-libya
The article presents news about the training provided by German security forces to Libya's security services featured in the German press.
Officials of the North Rhine-Westphalian (NRW) Interior Ministry are investigating the training of the Libyans by officers of the Special Action Group (SEK).