Sunday, September 27, 2020

Tracking the UK "Second Wave" Death Toll

Adam Larson (aka Caustic Logic)

September 27, 2020

updates Dec. 8


As the United Kingdom sees a rise in Covid19 infections, PM Johnson and others have suggested a new round of stay-at-home "lockdown" order may become necessary. Many are frustrated and confused. For example, independent journalist Anna Brees, a lockdown skeptic, shows the UK deaths curve (still looking totally flat at the end, and asks "lock me down for this?" 

As I see it, the first round of lockdown was "for this" - to make the people make that the death curve, instead of the one they were on the way to. As this shows and everyone knows, daily deaths had been doing nothing but rising sharply before they leveled off and then fell rather suddenly, starting in mid-April. That's about 2 weeks after restrictions were imposed and new infections witnessed a similar, if milder, decline. Most logically that's less contact, making less infections, and thus less fatalities. If that had been delayed, deaths would have kept rising to even higher levels it would take longer to arrest and then climb down from. 

Of course, it's a "second wave" and the deaths from that they worry about, and these haven't happened yet, aside from perhaps the low-rumbling start of them. I had just been looking gain at UK deaths again and noticed they've been rising - they had been down 4 or 5 most days, sometimes zero. But now they've gone back up to 10, 15, 26 a day and rising, with revisions pushing tallies into the 30s, and the latest full day currently says 45 deaths just in England and Wales on September 23 (these are Public Health / NHS stats - ONS still tallies a higher number for England and Wales, I noticed - 51,917 there, to official UK total 42,060 including Scotland and Northern Ireland). 

That rise doesn't yet show up clearly on a scale distorted by highs around 1,000 deaths per day, but it's a bad sign, and just the start of what will wind up hurting. Having a look at recent infections, it's clear that second wave is real and has already been happening. Official stats when I checked a few days ago - note the last day is tiny, provisional - all these days at the end can change, mostly up and probably just by a bit. With that, it's been hitting up to 5,000 confirmed cases per day. (in fact one day now revised to 5,197, and the site currently says for daily cases not yet plotted: 6,042. They will need to expand their graph.

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/cases


Maybe all those freewheeling protests are having an impact? Maybe some herd-immunity vigilantes are even out there deliberately spreading it to save the UK from tyranny? Possible. But mainly it's just the communicability of this virus plus a lot more communing than was happening; regular commerce and social activity. But then see the photo below from Trafalgar Square yesterday, September 26 (Time). To the extent this spirit prevails, their activity is not being done carefully except where it's required - and it largely has been, which is what's got these people so frustrated they prove as loud and clear as possible that they need to be babysat, even as they demand not to be. Babies, after all, don't understand.



Already confirmed infections are near past April levels. That's partly due to wider testing, of course, so it's not really that big in comparison - yet. And I do not foresee near-April levels of deaths coming on (above 800/day for a month straight back then), nor even the same rate scaled down to current real infections. "Protecting the vulnerable" can never be done totally, but it has been done fairly well, and that's been the main thing, IMO, that lets deaths remain so low people can easily pretend the danger has gone away for good. But again, it can't be done totally, and with this scale of infections that we know of, more yet that we don't, and especially if higher levels are yet to come -it will be harder for those of us in serious danger to keep avoiding this extremely contagious pathogen.

If second waves happen for real and not just in British leaders' agendas - maybe France would see one?  2nd wave - cases now far above April levels, confirming up to 16,000 cases in a day, and deaths are back up to 40-50 a day since Sept. 15, already with three spike-catchup days of 80, 154, and 150 each (in a slightly smaller populace than the UK). https://www.bing.com/covid/local/france?vert=graph


Now the UK death toll remains almost flat so far, but of course it takes time to die from the virus, so trying to call the second wave death toll is clearly premature. Almost instantly on seeing cases near 5,000/day, I predict the daily deaths will rise to 50, then 100, then hitting triple-digit daily tolls regularly, just from what we see here. Depending how high it gets, they may again see 300 dead in a day or more. Depending how long it takes to rein that back in, it could add a hell of a lot more deaths along the way. 

Projecting 2 Weeks' Deaths

Premature or not, I tried for a data-based estimate, and was able to show my initial guess  (" triple-digit daily tolls regularly, just from what we see here") was high. I tried to line up dates between cases, hospitalizations, and deaths in various ways - something I hadn't tried yet and didn't know how to do. For reference, I used this drugs.com page with a timeline of general progression that lines up with the bits I've heard: first symptoms is day 1 - fever, cough, aches, etc. Around days 7-9 dyspnoea and sepsis set in, in bad cases. Day 12 or so, improvement begins or ARDS forms, patient is admitted to ICU.  "Day 15: Acute kidney and cardiac injury becomes evident" and then "Day 18.5: The median time it takes from the first symptoms of COVID-19 to death is 18.5 days." (which would make it day 19.5, I think, starting from 1)

First I rushed off with a comparison of cases to deaths 18 days later (giving a crude cfr of 1.28% for what it's worth). But confirmation doesn't happen at infection. I suppose just when varies ... but the above gives 6 days on average in ICU, in turn usually 12 days after infection.  ... I tried a lineup of the curves for cases, hosp, deaths, on the idea surges would tend to show up similarly at the right times, besides scattering to surrounding days and mixing with other days' scatter. But with all the local wiggles and uncertain variables, it was hard to say. Generally, having the three set about  a week apart makes for a basic fit. Somehow I decided to use: hospital 6 days after confirmation, death 9 days after that (just 15 days total span). A ways in I realized even this wasn't the best, but I don't have the combination of skills and time to get it right, and it doesn't matter much - the differences are only so big, and some will cancel each other out.

Over the most recent 23 reasonably complete days, I count: 

372 deaths up to 9/23 (from 9/1), out of 

37,979 cases up to 9/8 (corresponding days), and 

3,207 hospitalized up to 9/14 (corresponding days).

I calculate a 0.98% crude CFR (case-fatality ratio) - nearly 1% of known cases have died so far. That's rather low and more like an Infection-Fatality ratio (IFR), historically, but confirmation is probably much higher now than it has been, bringing IFR and CFR a bit closer to synonymous.)

8.44% hospitalization rate - some 92% are considered ok to quarantine at home, but 8% require intensive help

11.6% crude "hfr" (hospitalization-fatality rate) between the 23 paired days (deaths 6 days later) - nearly 12% who have to go to the hospital never leave.

Using this cfr and hfr compared to daily cases and hospitalizations from Sept. 25, I project a total of around 519 deaths set for the next 14 days, as broken down below. 

The "cfr" I get comparing deaths 15 days from cases seems fairly steady down the line, but my hospital fatality rates are increasing over time. Around Sept. 5/6 hospitalizations is where it starts rising faster, from about 9% (as set up) to as high as 17.7 and 19.5%. An average of last 12 days gives a 13% hfr, which seemed to better fit the actual rise in deaths. so I used that. In fact the latest death tolls might show I'm still estimating low. 

Hospitalizations themselves seem to increase in the same time, from 130/day for a week up to Sept. 7, then quickly to 164, 192, 192, 205, 198, 208, 231, 247, 248.  Why these rise? wrong day line-up causes an increased distortion, or was causing it, and the higher rate is more accurate? Or hospitalizations and the fatality rate of them are actually rising? It could be that as young and careless people people spread the virus wider, it's now be spreading more to the less eager citizens; they avoid it for so many days and then don't, wind up in the hospital at a higher rate, and then die there at a higher rate than we were seeing 2 weeks ago. 

With this set-up, the longest projection is 15 days out from the latest reported cases tally (again, subject to change). I used 0.98% for each day's cases, and 13% for each corresponding day's hospitalizations (where available - six days later runs out 6 days before the end), to estimated deaths 15 days out. I just averaged the cfr and hfr predictions, which tended to be quite close. The 13% hfr does pull it a bit higher than the cfr alone, adding about 4-5 deaths at the end. So I mimicked that, adding 4-5 from there. We'll see if the current hfr makes it lower or higher than I estimate. This suggests what my earlier try did for a peak of deaths so far at 55 in a day - and I emphasize - so far.


What I'll be Watching

I will come back to check my prediction and bring updates on the confirmed death toll, the reactions of the government and the public, and maybe a look at the unconfirmed death toll. Another post deals with overall UK "excess deaths" (besides sorting out the varied and changing official tallies) - speculative analysis of the true death toll based on when and how people die at above-average rates. many have noted some 30,000 disputed non-covid "excess deaths" above the average, disputed if caused by the virus, or lockdown, or what. It tends to happen right when Covid19 is killing a lot, and when we can see how, it's in mostly cardiovascular ways where the virus might well play a hand. I'm having another go at this, expanded in a few ways, including to track the recent rises in covid and overall deaths, now above average when they had been well below for about 2 months. And I'll bring some more specific clues that bear out my thesis those excess deaths were probably more coronavirus ones never confirmed - and likely even some of the deaths BELOW the average line are as well. I've found so far the true U.K. death toll is probably over 70,000, possibly  as high as 80,000. I'll see about refining that point at that post,  after another week might settle some trend confusion I'll have to explain - maybe after I understand it.  

October 19: I haven't followed all developments. But cases are now at around 18-20,000 per day, hospitalizations are 900-1,000/day, and deaths are higher than I predicted, hitting around 90 most days and so far maxing out on October 11 at 103 (England and Wales - 117 for all U.K.). As before, all days open to revision, mainly up, and especially in the last few days.


December 8 update: I did this to help explain some points, including a conservative prediction of 320+ deaths per day by mid-November. (note: 2,550 is no kind of upper end - I compromised to avoid re-sizing the image to be even taller.


It turns out that was quite conservative and again yielded low predictions. Cases had risen to 20,000 per day on average as London went into lockdown (tier 3 restrictions) October 17, only slowing a climb to 25,000 in early November (with peaks past 31k on Nov. 2 and Nov. 9), and then declining to about 15k by early December. Hospitalizations peaked around 1,800/day all through mid-November, decreasing only to 1,400 by early December. when lockdown was eased in London Dec. 2 (tier 3 to tier 2). The peak of deaths would be 2-4 weeks after the highest numbers of cases, so has probably already passed, but the data may be incomplete. So far the highest tallies are 433 on Nov. 9 and 452 on Nov. 18 (again, England and Wales - all UK: 481 on the 9th, 484 on the 18th). 

I may have finally guessed too high here, estimating 580 daily UK deaths peaking around Nov. 22/23, as if that angled line really matters. I suppose the peak will be right around then, but only about 500 when it settles not much higher than it is by now. 

Comparing covid to all-cause excess deaths (E & W) from the end of lockdown 1 to lockdown 2 and the span between. That adds a bit to the question of what caused all those deaths under lockdown, which I addressed here.



46 comments:

  1. Are you still writing about Syria? Specifically the courageous Mr Henderson's statement here https://youtu.be/gCyPR4-HQ7s?t=10845

    If the DG himself told the meeting the reports were fixed and the Syrian stockpile declaration in fact complete, I get the feeling the diplomats would still be reading statements about how they have total confidence in the previous OPCW reports and how Syria hasn't declared the complete stockpile.

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    1. Not writing lately, but I did watch the presentation thanks to your tip. Postol was there and no wiser :( But Henderson, Aaron Mate and some of the ambassadors (esp. Belarus, Nicaragua) were incisive. The others with their automated messages were pretty sickening.

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    2. Aaron Mate's exchange with Thomas Phipps is worth a read too https://twitter.com/thomasphipps/status/1311725823678873600

      Ambassador Allen having said "[Syria] didn't mention goats" in relation to the samples they tested (AKA 16SDS provided by the White Helmets), Mr Phipps went on to say that the experts did not contest the IIT's findings https://twitter.com/thomasphipps/status/1311659473426100224

      So 'forgetting' that the sarin at Khan Sheikhoun and Lataminah is supposedly the same- Postol contesting KS means he automatically contests L. They remember this connection when convenient plus Mr Henderson also spoke about the IIT's cherry-picking methods.

      Mr Allen points to Russia and Syria's changing take on what they (think) happened as proof of guilt but that doesn't apply to e.g. Abdelhamid al-Yousef, Mustafa al-Khaled, Dr Hazem, the White Helmets on their KS first response, the CoI on Douma (Phipps seems familiar with their work but I'm guessing not with A/HRC/38/CRP.3 #52), the IIT (reporting different, more severe symptoms for March 24 than FFM), Navalny's aides.. and so on.

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    3. Also these 2 reports-

      https://www.opcw.org/media-centre/news/2020/10/opcw-issues-two-fact-finding-mission-reports-chemical-weapons-use

      The first "confirmed" by GPPi but not enough evidence for OPCW to even manage a "likely", the second (alleged attack on gov. area) on first skim read the custody chain is suddenly important (insinuating something?) but then the samples test negative.

      The suggestion being that in the same way the Syrian gov. can't simply put one of those cylinders with harness into an opposition ammunition cache, the supposedly chlorine-rich Syrian gov. couldn't fake samples (and described negative chemical detector readings, handed over negative medical tests etc.).

      I suppose that one will never make it to the IIT who are willing to hand-wave "differing descriptions as to the numbers and symptoms" by the opposition (7.17) by just throwing in *more* alleged chemical attacks (by aircraft equally undetected anywhere in the country by Sentry Syria I suppose).

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    4. . The scope of the analysis included
      scheduled chemicals, their precursors and degradation products, riot control agents,
      and chlorinated organic chemicals. The laboratory reports did not show the presence
      of any such chemicals in the samples.

      Awesome. They could match anything to anything, all symptoms could be anything, and the samples all showed none of the several things they decided to check for. They managed to narrow it down, surely to something that also could be anything, nothing in particular, effectively nothing. Could they even narrow it down so well without some idea what it was and therefore what not to look for? Possibly.

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    5. More difficult than a big yellow cylinder and SAMS standard list of symptoms. Even sarin related chemicals from an attack in 5 days time are then no problem.. they just have to remember those day-before-sarin-resuscitations in the relevant surgical room when transparently making it up for the FFM.

      This could be interesting if details are public:

      https://uk.reuters.com/article/mideast-syria-germany-chemicalweapons-in/syrian-victims-of-chemical-attacks-file-case-with-german-prosecutors-idUSKBN26R10V

      "They include testimonies from 17 survivors and 50 defectors with knowledge of the Syrian government’s chemical weapons programme or plans to carry out the two attacks [Ghouta, Khan Sheikhoun], they say."

      Defectors after April 2017?

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    6. There are many I would like to see more from, e.g. the school bus driver who "suspected that KS was a chemical bomb" and then took the children home (back into the chemical cloud instead of to safety so they end up in hospital).

      https://www.trtworld.com/mea/survivors-of-idlib-chemical-attack-recount-their-horror-331517

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  2. I have my own mixed feelings about my covid obsession, and it isn't really on-topic ("massacre marketing") but there's a case I've been meaning to make finally. Lost focus elsehwhere = downside. It seemed not the most pivotal time, but it would seem like that either way, huh? So thanks for bringing this stuff - off-topic discussion for a current post that's sort of more on-topic than the post winds up like a fresh breeze. Which is good - more dusty stagnation is coming! (maybe other things too, we'll see. I've been wanting to do more and smaller and more varied blog posts for one thing, but keep failing so far.).

    Comment on just what it is you bring ... in a bit. Cheers.

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    1. On topic fwiw, won't really help you with the statistics but from personal experience (at least in my part of the UK) re. NHS and cancer treatment- my family did receive radiotheraphy in May which gave us a few more months. Prescribed dexamethasone post treatment a couple of times (side effects were "horrible" so not the wonder-cure the world would like) and at the end had another 2 covid tests. Both negative even with a compromised immune system (we stuck to local measures without being OTT so although there were cases in the area, it wasn't something we were all inevitably going to get) and they have never tried to re-categorize her as a 'covid' death. All places involved were taking PPE etc. very seriously so, while I can't speak for the rest of the country, from just my point of view the NHS hasn't been 'closed', it hasn't been a 'hoax' etc.

      If you fancy another Syria distraction, this has appeared https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5fxSBS0kpo by what sounds like Microsoft Bob. See how much nonsense you can spot, they are clearly not informed - Mi-24, pretending at the time of CNN visiting Diaa Mohammed it wasn't alleged mix of nerve agent and chlorine, pretending that Riam Dalati thing came from 'UK Russian embassy tweets', the ZeroHedge article they cite in their own video literally quotes Dalati's "ATTACK DID HAPPEN" they claim wasn't quoted (even RT included it, stupid conspiracy theory about the 'threatening of the Diabs' etc. Making a video like that all these years later, someone must be worried about Aaron Mate, Jimmy Dore and others.

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    2. They must be a bit daft to blindly defend CNN when it seems they do not even read CNN "officials suspect the substance used in the attack was a mixture of chlorine, sarin and possibly other chemicals" vs CNN. Jimmy Dore is spot on.

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    3. Andrew, hey. Sorry to hear about your loss, as I read that, Your family (just one member I hope) got needed radiotherapy, and in May. I'm seeing a lot of cancelled stuff from ~April 3, and I'd doubt it was permanent or even long-term. Maybe it was delayed and gave less time than it would. I read the NHS and related agencies had 620 die from the virus, mostly back when they tried to handle it all and had most patients die anyway. Understandable they'd switch to some prioritized care until things mellowed out, and then quite possibly would overdo that for a while. Somewhere in May seems a good time to try resuming normalcy. Anyway, thanks for the insights and sorry for your loss.

      That video was pretty lame. People who matter probably are upset, but I don't sense this guy being on their payroll or anything. Well, maybe, if they were trying to make him look like an unprofessional goof.

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    4. Thanks- yes just the one. All covid-negative patients (12 people iirc) were isolated together with no visitors allowed- so she wasn't the only one but I can't say how it was decided who to admit (treatment type, postcode?) or how many covid-negative patients were in the hospital in total. Much experience with the NHS over the years (including seeing MRSA spread by hospital staff) so can appreciate the challenge covid poses and that the experience can vary, but just my 2 cents.

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  4. https://www.bellingcat.com/news/mena/2020/10/26/unpublished-opcw-douma-correspondence-raises-doubts-about-transparency-of-opcw-leaks-promoters/

    Unbelievably someone from the OPCW really does think it is a good idea to try and do this via Bellingcat (talking about "transparency" with a unverifiable screenshot of half a "draft" that even admits they did not place any importance on analysing background samples (by "Arias"? or "OPCW scientists"?)- with comments off now and attempts to give out the inspector's name again).

    Imagine the propaganda coup if they simply showed the three great engineering assessments to Mr Henderson and he then made a statement saying he now agrees.. but instead they do this.

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    1. A draft would suggest not from Mr Arias but someone without access to the final version (if it was ever sent)? Related, Len Philips retweeted this https://twitter.com/TitusMichaeleus/status/1310613495323521025 so it appears he has some kind of personal problem with Mr Henderson.

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    2. Given Higgins' completely stupid reaction to Aaron Mate's question https://twitter.com/aaronjmate/status/1321216813401866243 perhaps the 'letter' is completely worthless. And doesn't seem to tie with S/1731/2019 where they are careful to not claim anything is 'unique' to a chlorine 'attack' e.g. caveats like 8.13. 8.17's "reasonable grounds" is not "a unique fingerprint of".

      Maybe a real response but had to be removed as not true.. or the letter never sent.. or perhaps the context and details don't matter to them anyway. Like Bhatti working out the distance parts would travel in KS but it somehow doesn't matter that none were found there. Or Kaszeta describing how fragments would fly in all directions and be embedded but somehow doesn't matter that this is not seen in KS. Or Higgins saying the Douma cylinder is dented and bed damaged https://twitter.com/EliotHiggins/status/1320797678373130240 but doesn't matter to him that the valve is still intact, the 'bounce' is ridiculous, fins tucked under a blanket and the bed doesn't break on impact but only weeks later. They just ignore any inconvenient details.

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    3. Refers to (or misrepresents?) 8.11? :

      "in experiments conducted by one designated laboratory, the chlorinated phenol could be generated by exposing wood samples to chlorine gas"

      But this does not to me "[indicate] that the wood had indeed been exposed to chlorine gas" only that it is *possible*. If it showed *unique* signatures wouldn't that be mentioned in the FFM report? It would be beyond the "reasonable grounds" in 8.17. This sounds more like one of Bhatti's theories

      In any case...

      https://archive.is/8LH29

      Higgins won't sell out his principals[sic].

      But has no principles - hasn't corrected their lies about Mr Henderson and his work and is trying to name and smear inspectors (even though the worst thing Brian Whitaker could find about him was a tweet of praise)

      Imagine their response if RT ran a story based entirely on a screenshot of part of a Word document and then claim it 'debunked' everyone else

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    4. Interesting that Dr Whelan's letter to DG notes "the report makes no mention of the fact that ... the White Helmets doused ... Location 2 with fire-fighting water" (as seen on video)

      Assuming Bellingcat aren't completely insane and just making fakes, their 'draft' does refer to something in Dr W's genuine letter and they trusted the source. So can only be someone who is (or was) part of the OPCW, possibly DG Arias directly or indirectly requested a response from the Turkey-X team to the letter which someone then thought was going to be used (this could easily be an individual response passed on via a friend that BC turned into a 'group response').

      The strange part is I've seen more chemistry in posts on Reddit than in this supposed response by 'scientists better qualified than a 30-year-PhD-chemist-and-sole-trainer-of-inspectors-on-chemistry'. Also if 'better qualified', why was Dr Whelan the only trainer of inspectors?

      As the FFM could simply put any compelling evidence into their final report or, even if new evidence after the FFM report, the OPCW could make the documents public, they have no need to do anything via 'leaks' to BC. But maybe some bitter individual would?

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    5. Also why is it that (8.33) "the highest content of chlorinated organic compounds of all wood samples taken" is the piece from the location where there were no deaths or injuries not from L2 where ~35 people were supposedly killed over different floors and on different sides of the building? And if amount is insignificant, why did the FFM note it.

      The BC I'm-A-Chemists attribute this to chlorine gas being "far more corrosive and aggressive when moisture is present" but in the earliest videos of L4, the wood underneath doesn't look wet or damp in any way. Only after the cylinder has been cleaned at the time of the Russian videos and the FFM visit 18 days later (as per FFM Annex 7) does it look wet.

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    6. TM said and LP re-said: "Ian Henderson, a serially discredited former OPCW inspector who was expelled from the organisation following a litany of deception, during which he misrepresented himself to external parties and shared and accessed sensitive information he shouldn't have." Huh.

      Agreed the letter is unclear if it even says gas release was proven rather than just suggested or just possible. All considered, I still think they did open those valves after lugging the things in, and the widespread narrowing of the issue to this question plays into Bellingcat's hands, and OPCW leadership's. It puts us at odds with the evidence, IMO.

      And FWIW if all they found was a small onetime payment, a workshop attendance makes enough sense. I suppose any such funding would be indirect - like FCO bosses making private donations, maybe from a bonus they got for that reason, maybe just out of pocket. I don't see them getting rich here, just handed enough to function at least, and more importantly getting credit and praise to add weight to their "findings" - always politicized, frequently wrong, and then never corrected if the error was politically useful.

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    7. From the II docs I thought they'd been deemed not quite good enough to use. That being said, Higgins does have some connection to the FCO:

      https://www.ft.com/content/20e7dbd2-b080-11e4-92b6-00144feab7de

      in 2015 "he earns most of his money through consulting. After his session at the FT, he is off to The Economist and the week after to the UK Foreign Office"

      IIRC the II docs also included social media analysis that selected people like Dan Kaszeta and Clyde Davis.. which seems a bit of a coincidence

      Davis is especially strange by the way, it seems he stopped being a chemist to work with computers that he bizarrely doesn't "trust"

      https://twitter.com/deadlyvices/status/1132981274287792129

      The FCO actually refer to Bellingcat too:

      https://questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-questions/detail/2019-05-07/251292

      But the impression they give to me (and considering the infamous 'copy and pasted from wrong list' document) is that Bellingcat would *like* to be affiliated rather than actually are. They seem more 'friendly' rather than in the know you could say, e.g.:

      https://twitter.com/UK_OPCW/status/1319565506228137984

      But just my impression.

      In any case, I don't believe Dr Whelan would lie in private letters to DG Arias about "sub-trace" levels or the fact that they had a control sample ready to test- a test that could only strengthen any case. He was clearly working on researching the possibilities and I don't see him trying to do anything but present a more balanced picture. Why this would worry anyone into removing him from the FFM...

      I wonder which designated lab "could no longer stand by the validity of their quantitative measurements" - the same lab that then developed "methods for analysing wood exposed to chlorine gas"..?

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    8. The 'highest amount of chlorinated organic compounds of all wood samples' was also included in the original draft report so I wonder if Dr Whelan was working towards explaining this and the relevance of the washing/viscous liquid (possibly bleach) found everywhere. As a non-chemist it is more difficult to see where we are being misled than historical damage etc. but I suspect it is something similar- an assumption that all lab results must relate to that night while ignoring the many other years the building has been there and other possibilities.

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    9. Wondering how Mr Moon knows the Bellingcat 'draft' is "fake"

      https://twitter.com/2ndNewMoon/status/1322538322187735040

      Unless it was written to trick BC knowing it contained nothing from the real letter. Surely BC wouldn't be so stupid as to run with an anon leak that looked like that Word doc screenshot

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    10. Mr Moon described himself as curator of the leaked documents https://twitter.com/2ndNewMoon/status/1262800163510329347

      with apparently more than were made public
      https://twitter.com/2ndNewMoon/status/1226508592766967808

      If Dr Whelan's documents included his letter, whoever possessed the documents could, in theory, make a fake to wind up Bellingcat as they could reference Dr W's actual points (i.e. this). BC would be pretty dense to accept it though

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    11. D'aramitz: "I do OPCW work, whistleblowers etc. I am a curator for leaked documents"There are _more_ docs" "I am not able to go into details at this time. (wink)" He's mostly full of crap, IMO, but not to the degree of saying he was involved in this leak. He'll be guessing it's fake and that there are more, probably doesn't know.

      Not sure what to make of the draft letter, like who made it. I guess the missing pages have clues they'd rather not share, so it's not custom made for this task anyway.

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    12. Maybe he is.

      But I still don't believe they held back any irrefutable scientific evidence to only be mentioned in private letters. Dr Whelan had already experienced attempts to change wording, the FFM offering bogus 'smoking guns' and team Turkey-X showing no interest in considering his research on other possible sources for the sample results.

      For one thing, the lab would have had to continue spending time doing experiments with the wood samples but still manage to never bother to test the control samples.

      'Other pages' Bellingcat would not already be desperately parading are as all those independent assessments the OPCW won't even show their own staff. If Bellingcat honestly believed the OPCW investigation is so wonderful, they would not feel the need to try and join in smearing the inspectors.

      But someone will come along to try and explain away activists being unable to film any of the 500 genuine victims being treated and it will be "whatabout" Assad bad this, Assad bad that. As if advocating for not falsifying evidence of a crime is somehow endorsing any other possible criminality.

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    13. There is the BBC Mayday series that doesn't seem too interesting (the war is being fought with cameras but White-Helmets-aren't-propaganda-honest and we are 'confused' westerners if we think they are. To prove it they contacted UN designated terrorist organization HTS to ask their PR man whether they are affiliated to the White Helmets)

      Raed Saleh seems to think the Douma hospital videos are real (despite the FFM's observations) and Hadjimatheou plucks one of the many contradicting testimonies given as proof people arrived at Point One foaming at the mouth (ignore 8.43 and choose 8.56 over e.g. 8.49 for no good reason apart from maybe 'White Helmets say so')

      I've archived the White Helmets Douma "pinpoint pupils" statement tweet as it seems to be gone from their site https://archive.is/YeRgo

      Delete
    14. Douma specific episode you can download
      https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p08z33bp

      Haven't listened yet but hopefully better than the couple of episodes I tried from the main series. Looking forward to hearing great answers to qs such as why with 500 genuine victims (some who have immediately developed pulmonary edema to be foaming at the mouth and who all "self-extracted" via streets that the White Helmets found unpassable "due to the intensity of the shelling"), Douma activists instead filmed and photographed the hospital where "none appeared to be ill" and "no critically ill patients are seen".

      Delete
    15. Only interesting part is OPCW inspector "Leon" ("Len"?). His argument is that 'they wouldn't fake an attack by putting a cylinder on a bed' because that would be stupid so can see his bias just from that.

      I'd bet on "Leon" being the same person who wrote Bellingcat's "draft". Claiming to represent the consensus of 'all the scientists' but saying things that strangely couldn't be simply stated in the final report. They "can't understand" why Dr Whelan would disagree but then wouldn't attend his presentation of research into alternative possibilities.

      Hadjimatheou likes her unsubstantiated 'facts' and 'evidence' - L4 cylinder had markings "that mirrored the hole it fell through"? She says the victims "all died at the same time of the same cause".

      The L2 cylinder wasn't "lodged" in anything but I think the White Helmets have deleted that video now so perhaps she and Andrea Sella missed it. But then Sella was ready to support "nerve agent and chlorine" right from the start, his only other tweets mentioning Douma defer to the NYT garbage and Hilsman (oh dear).

      Delete
    16. Also noting the little dig at Mr Henderson by "Leon" (as with Mr "Leon"ard not-even-in-the-FFM Philip's apparent personal problem with Henderson). They always seem to forget that Mr Henderson had "misled [cough] the professors of the [western] university" to help with his engineering assessment. The university have never had any reason not to have produced a professional and accurate assessment.

      This was quite a statement by Emma Le Mesurier too
      http://archive.is/UGqHo
      "WH have not taken part in any executions. This has been thoroughly debunked."

      She has a strange idea of 'not taking part' and the videos and official WH statements being "debunked"..!

      Delete
    17. Wikileaks $100k https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/983443098767364097

      Dr Whelan pre-emptively became a veteran OPCW inspector in the hope that one day Wikileaks might give a comparatively small cash reward.. which would be completely stupid and Hadjimatheou "doesn't know if he ever claimed it" but throws it out there anyway.

      I'd say the stupidity of putting a cylinder on the bed with an intact valve is in keeping with trying to sell a nerve agent and chlorine mixture, the symptoms and timing being wrong, the bodies being placed in a pile and mostly on the ground floor in an apartment with no door, leaving someone on a stretcher, the hospital scenes showing people who were obviously not sick, posing the dead, the witnesses stories such as Hanan's making no sense etc.

      TV4 and others were quite prepared to leave out any testimony blaming JaI http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1804/19/ctw.01.html

      People like Alastair Hay and Hamish De Bretton-Gordon were immediately prepared to tell everyone it was a nerve agent and chlorine mix.

      With that and the "Leon"s and Bellingcats of the world prepared to tell everyone that 2 bits of wood are definitive proof while hand-waving anything dubious (with those three reports no-one else can read that they love to mention), I think activists/JaI could make the scene as stupid as they liked. They'd still get support - e.g. Hadjimatheou sneers at any other space acting as a "gas chamber" but readily accepts the apartment with no front door acting as one.

      This is why, considering the alleged background levels, I'm not so sure about your theory with an actual chlorine gas release which would require staging with some actual logic and intelligence.

      Delete
    18. Just to note.. there only seems to be the one person trying to actually argue but they are (maybe understandably) misreading https://twitter.com/KostjaMarschke/status/1323384378035183618

      #12 in Dr Whelan's letter makes it clear that FFM 2.6 and first draft 8.2 are the designated lab's conclusion (despite "the FFM concludes"). His point here is that the control sample to back up that statement was never even analysed, 27 b in the letter explains that the interim statement was intended to be read alongside the quantitative levels "to put the results in perspective" and that the FFM team were "disingenuously" reporting certain chemicals as 'smoking guns' at the time of writing the interim report.

      Delete
    19. https://twitter.com/OliverKamm/status/1331629480570466307
      https://twitter.com/OliverKamm/status/1116785713847111680

      I wonder why Mr Kamm doesn't turn that scrutiny onto Higgins? Obviously if you are in 'the good cause' club you get a free pass. Fraud in a 'good cause' is fine apparently. What else would be, lying and smearing?


      Practical demonstration here of how (with no escapes and no rescues) it takes only 4 seconds to walk from ground floor apartment to outside.
      https://youtu.be/8TElceE3aLI?t=87

      I'm guessing now that nobody is going to try and find out who those poor people were and how they died- the FFM, BBC and friends found 'the good cause' and two pieces of wood to be more important than anything about the people.

      Delete
    20. Riam Dalati won't reveal his '6 month investigation' because he "can't be arsed"

      https://twitter.com/Dalatrm/status/1333454333015429121

      (still claiming Russia had to "discredit" something he himself says he has proof was faked and when "no 1 knew what really happened at the flats apart from activists manipulating the scene there" is in no position to say "The ATTACK DID HAPPEN". I still think a pre-emptive damage control attempt that was dropped when not needed.)

      Delete
    21. This one seems to be a few minutes earlier than the White Helmets tweet (8:11pm?)

      https://archive.is/kdNO9

      "Hundreds" at the hospital by 8pm and NYT do not show the earliest messages about it (on WhatsApp, Telegram or similar I suppose?

      White Helmets also tweeted at exactly 4pm about the earlier thing with almost the same tweets

      https://twitter.com/AHMADscd7/status/982604064734306305
      https://archive.is/4RbNR

      Later 8.14pm tweet-

      https://twitter.com/SCDrifdimashq/status/982667828284272640
      http://archive.is/gnyKo

      Delete
    22. 8:10pm

      https://twitter.com/aboomardoma1976/status/982666920754405376
      https://archive.is/xWnUv

      I'm sure someone more tech savvy could determine the earliest tweet at least, some limitations with twitter search obviously.

      The strange part being that the only files with metadata for hospital scenes are around 9:30pm (as is the watch in one video). Not one person filmed or photographed these hundreds? Very Khan Sheikhoun.

      Plus from FFM 8.49 and 8.56, both appear to agree on the time "shortly after 19:00" so there is no argument that the 'hundreds' actually arrived later on. And no reason for activists to be handing over irrelevant videos to the OPCW in relation to the 7:30pm event (4pm victims never went to point one 8.55, no delivery method etc.). They could ask the people in hospital and doctors whether those being filmed were 'chlorine victims'. Should be obvious if someone has been enveloped in a chlorine cloud and needs treatment shouldn't it?

      Delete
    23. 8:02pm

      https://archive.is/IxCzQ
      https://twitter.com/basel_h1986/status/982665000153178112

      Delete
    24. I've just seen Micha Kob's video and he makes a good point

      https://youtu.be/B3mbpkvRoQc?t=77

      Perhaps not 9:30 but 6:48 after all. DST started March 30 https://www.timeanddate.com/time/change/syria/damascus?year=2018

      If they didn't wind their watch on an hour, this could be 7:48pm? I cannot see the 10:06pm video in the first draft interim report either, there is a 10:06 but it is "#NAME?" in a folder called "photos".

      Also possible that both watch and metadata are wrong.

      Delete
    25. Also noting in final report A.11.9, the FFM does not consider any media file to show the cylinder until the next morning. They do not list the 10:06pm video.

      Delete
    26. Been seeing most comments, but haven't had much to add. On this, any hour-sized discrepancy might be explained with the time change. Straight-forward, they'd spring forward, so a watch not changed would say 6:45 to everyone else's 7:45. I'm not as familiar as some with the details of that scene, so I'm not sure which time (6:48 or 9:30) makes more sense. Metadata says 9:30, and visually, the short vs. long hands still seem to say 9:30, but that could be an illusion.

      Delete
    27. The videos are edited together too so unclear if that part could have metadata and have been filmed later than other scenes.

      Some confusion on the latest Grayzone piece, Robert Fairweather looks to have replied and then 5 hours later tried to remove his reply making "a one-sentence email" automatic message. It still isn't inconsistent with later deciding to remove both his reply and copies of the original email (if that is indeed what happened).

      Delete
    28. The FFM throw out the very wrong metadata videos ("in an abundance of caution", from "the analysis".. of metadata but still included as "the conclusion is that the content is related to the incident"?) but not clear how or if they verified the times of other videos "three hours after". At least with KS the shadows could roughly confirm.

      As presumably the Grayzone docs are from Whelan, it would suggest that trying to recall an email is an unusual thing in the OPCW. 5 hours isn't a sudden realization of a typo so it would be interesting to find out what changed Mr Fairweather's mind about replying that day.

      Delete
    29. The only message that could apply here is the first https://archive.is/SHPRY

      3:53:44 Helicopter takes off from Al-Seen
      https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q20455723


      According to Google Maps, Al-Seen is about 47 miles from the area shown in FFM figure 5. Dumayr on the other hand is ~20 miles from Douma.
      https://imgur.com/eaYyMHz


      (no message about circling but it takes helicopters ~10 minutes to arrive from Dumayr and this is more than twice the distance.. then has to drop ???, vent, affect nearly 20 people and all people get to the WH center)


      (FFM 8.55 - 15 to 18 casualties arrive at White Helmets center. Chlorine affects no-one else, no method of delivery shown and broad daylight as per Syrian news channel so they should have been able to find any big yellow cylinders spewing gas)


      4:00:39

      "The residential neighborhoods in Duma were Targeted with poisonous gases by the regime's forces and civil defense are unable to do anything due to the violent and intensive booming in the city until these moments."

      The same White Helmet declares it *too difficult to go and help* but casualties can only have just arrived.

      NYT has 7:16-7:23pm Helicopters depart Dumayr and 7:26-7:38pm helicopters circle. I don't know the specs for Mi-8s but ~10 minutes would be ~120mph https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mil_Mi-8#Specifications_(Mi-8MT). Sentry Syria doesn't seem to have a message for the 7:16pm take off.

      So from Al-Seen, taking off at 3:54pm and allowing a couple of minutes for people to get to the White Helmets, an Mi-8 would have to fly at an average of 705mph.


      With respect to the tweets reporting hundreds of casualties at 8pm, that would mean people had escaped that street (unless someone wants to argue the hundreds of injured were injured somewhere else..) and could all reach hospital/medical clinics- therefore the White Helmets or any other potential rescuer could also reach the street/L2.

      Even if we ignore that actual experts say the onset of pulmonary edema takes hours and instead pretend that a random website saying 30 minutes trumps them and is correct, this would still mean that the people at L2 would have been alive at this time.

      Also- I think relevant is that the activist "last hug" short story was about "sarin"
      https://archive.vn/5xMiM

      Delete
    30. Sentry Syria messages for 3-4pm:
      https://justpaste.it/3q4t1

      Delete
  5. Worth noting (and in the context of that token mosque bombing piece Bellingcat constantly points to), Higgins says he turned down "millions and millions" from the US State Department:

    (have to create account to read but free)
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bellingcats-founder-on-how-they-unmasked-the-salisbury-poisoners-bpltlqtbl

    "
    About one third of funding, he says, comes from the workshops Bellingcat organises around the world to encourage more open source reporting as an antidote to dictatorships. The rest is from private foundations such as the National Endowment for Democracy, a nonprofit organisation set up in America in the 1980s. Higgins insists he does not take money from any government.

    “It’s quite annoying because people say Bellingcat is funded directly by the US State Department, and we’ve turned down loads of money from them because we don’t want to take direct funding — like, literally millions and millions.”

    Many remain sceptical, though, about Bellingcat and its successes. Besides the Russians, “there’s a big group of people who’ve decided we’re obviously working for the CIA or GCHQ or whichever abbreviation you prefer,” he says.

    For its supporters, though, Bellingcat is beating western intelligence services at their own game. “I’ve occasionally met people who know people who do this [intelligence] stuff,” he adds. “Back in 2013 and 2014, when I was first doing this before Bellingcat, they’d say that I was their dirty little secret: they’d steal all the work I was doing and put it in their own reports.”
    "

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. https://twitter.com/EliotHiggins/status/1276617756880908289

      Higgins also pedalled the fake story about Russian bounties by GRU 'unit 29155' (supposedly something they know about and constantly 'expose' to this day). So either knew he was tweeting out lies or Higgins doesn't actually know anything about the people he accuses.

      Delete

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