tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7091580307813686433.post495766902609099440..comments2024-03-18T22:03:28.458-07:00Comments on Monitor on Massacre Marketing: Khamis Brigade Shed Massacre: Believe Whom?Caustic Logichttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03082923821952309709noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7091580307813686433.post-12151177458636672072012-07-10T03:30:39.578-07:002012-07-10T03:30:39.578-07:00Khamis eventually had a taste of his own medicine:...Khamis eventually had a taste of his own medicine: after fleeing south from Tripoli, he is thought to have been killed when an Apache helicopter fired a rocket at his armoured car near the town of Bani Walid. Had he remained on the run, the next organisation seeking the pleasure of his company would have been The Hague war crimes court, which is already investigating the warehouse massacre and several other mass graves found near his brigade’s HQ.<br /><br /><br />In the course of that inquiry, there may be questions about why Britain deemed it fit to equip a unit whose name suggested it was a private militia. Last week, a spokesman for the DSO insisted it “did not export equipment where there is a clear risk it could be used for internal repression”.<br /><br />Correspondence found in the embassy, which was ransacked and torched by a pro-Gaddafi mob in May, shows the extraordinary extent to which Britain courted the unit.<br /><br />The General Dynamics contract opened up a new era of close co-operation with the Libyan military, including SAS training for the Khamis Brigade, plans for courses at Sandhurst, trips by British generals to meet Khamis in Libya and taxpayer-funded invitations to the Farnborough Air Show for other Gaddafi military chiefs, with accommodation in five-star London hotels. The documents even show that civil servants advised Khamis on how to block a Freedom of Information request about an invitation to a British arms fair.<br /><br />Nowhere is the eagerness to please more apparent on the British side than in touting the services of the SAS. <br />http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8786897/How-Britain-courted-armed-and-trained-a-Libyan-monster.htmlhurriyanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7091580307813686433.post-85936668173203312112012-03-26T22:50:53.369-07:002012-03-26T22:50:53.369-07:00@Petri - as Stuart Ramsay speaks at 16.01 Aug 27 i...@Petri - as Stuart Ramsay speaks at 16.01 Aug 27 in the <a rel="nofollow">first Sky video</a>, across the screen flashes the news <b>Sky Correspondent witnesses mass grave from massacre on August 23 in Southern Tripoli</b> at 0.53ff. Ramsay:<i>"Beneath where they are standing there are believed to be more bodies buried"</i> [in the middle of the compound] at 1.33.<br />Thus the lie is born.felixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12363991252776819712noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7091580307813686433.post-37821449611702576412012-03-26T17:01:30.964-07:002012-03-26T17:01:30.964-07:00Why does it say "mass grave" when clearl...Why does it say "mass grave" when clearly the bodies brought in were never buried. In fact, the two bodies dumped – if they originate from the neighboring lot – are the only ones <em>not</em> involved in some mass grave or massacre or some other grisly "Gaddafi crime." They might simply be battle casualties.<br /><br />***<br /><br />Off-topic: Two photos ahead you find this image of AP journalist Ben Hubbard you said you could not access through the <a href="http://o.aolcdn.com/photo-hub/AC78B022715C5B8357B4DCA8045E8463B4DE2124/Mideast_Libya.jpg_LR1.fc8bf6ccde804fccb57bedfaba1d2f60" rel="nofollow">link</a> in the <a href="http://libyancivilwar.blogspot.com/2012/02/alex-thomson-saves-african-migrants.html" rel="nofollow">other article</a>.<br /><br /><a href="http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/kerpe1/view/468952/?page=1" rel="nofollow">Mideast Libya</a><br /><em>Rebel fighters and a journalist who was helping translate look on at an African migrant worker whom rebels had accused of being a mercenary, seen detained in the military base in Tripoli, Libya, Sunday, Aug. 28, 2011. The man and ten others were later released. Hundreds of migrant workers remain stranded in Libya after six months of war, unable to flee the country. (AP Photo/Sergey Ponomarev)</em>Petri Krohnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12630751579069253718noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7091580307813686433.post-32592032247182089302012-03-26T16:45:54.276-07:002012-03-26T16:45:54.276-07:00I wonder why the UNHRC suddenly claims that the fi...I wonder why the UNHRC suddenly claims that the fire was started on the 25th, when everyone else was saying it happened on the 26th? It could be that UNHRC now has evidence, that the shed was in rebel hands on the 26th – and therefore al Gaddafi "had" to burn it a day before.Petri Krohnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12630751579069253718noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7091580307813686433.post-32605195839044259632012-03-26T16:38:02.070-07:002012-03-26T16:38:02.070-07:00I do not think it would be possible to exit the ho...I do not think it would be possible to exit the hole and get over the wall at the same time. It would be a challenge to just to get out without falling head first on the ground.<br /><br />These is some distance between the back wall of the shed and the perimeter wall. You can see this this be observing the parallax "movement" of the wall tiles in the different shots of the hole. I estimate the distance to be at least 0.5 meters, or 2 feet. Someone claimed, that the guards would keep "man-eating" dogs in this space.Petri Krohnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12630751579069253718noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7091580307813686433.post-51011401449951968362012-03-22T03:08:50.273-07:002012-03-22T03:08:50.273-07:00Adam,
I know of the alleged massacre only through...Adam,<br /><br />I know of the alleged massacre only through your writing and the comments—not your source materials—so I’m certainly not an expert on this matter. Keep this in mind when considering the following criticism. I found myself somewhat frustrated by the essay’s tentativeness. Based on your characterization of the evidence, it’s obvious that some witnesses were lying and the UN Human Rights Council claim that there are “small discrepancies” among witnesses is either a lie or the result of suspiciously weak analysis.<br /><br />E.g., one person says 15 minutes of gunfire, another remembers 6 hours. (Am I right on these facts?). If most are saying 15-30 minutes of shooting, okay, maybe they’re telling the truth. But the guy who says 6 hours is lying. It’s not believable that he could plausibly “remember” the shooting for lasting six hours. Moreover, it is ridiculous to say it is a “small discrepancy” if one person says 15 minutes of shooting and another claims six hours. This inconsistency is prima facie evidence of lying.<br /><br />Another example: Amr Dau Algala told the Independent that there were threats the day before the killings: “The threat proved to be real the following morning when the murders began.” This is an excellent example of a flat-out lie, not a “small discrepancy.” Practically everyone else is saying the killing occurred at night. It’s not believable that ADA would remember the alleged attack starting in the morning.<br /><br />ADA is associated with another lie. The date of the alleged massacre is widely agreed to be the 23rd. ADA claims that survivors of the massacre were running from a burning building. UNHRC decided the fire was set on the 25th, however, and if this time is true, ADA is lying about the fire (and presumably about everything else).<br /><br />The material you have about ADA speaks to lying, not a “small discrepancy.” I think it’s best to make the general point explicit: e.g., “although the UNHRC claims that there are ‘small discrepancies’ among alleged-survivor narratives, in fact, some witnesses are almost certainly lying, and the integrity of the UNHRC report is suspect.” And the place for an idea like this is up front: indeed, many readers read only the first paragraph or so.<br /><br />This is a crucial point about a general audience: many read the headline and only the first paragraph.<br /><br />If your piece is directed to UNHRC, well, of course, calling them rat-faced liars in the first sentence probably won’t go over well.<br /><br />Best of luck with the essay.<br /><br />Art BetheaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7091580307813686433.post-45556348905126983072012-03-18T20:38:38.306-07:002012-03-18T20:38:38.306-07:00http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2HgcSpthPQ&fea...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2HgcSpthPQ&feature=related<br />0.22 several men held @ the base<br /><br />LIBYA UN Ban Ki-Moon Doesn't Tour Ethnically Cleansed Tawergha Or Condemn Black Persecution 11.02.11<br /><br />witness : abdel hadhi bishweyahurriyanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7091580307813686433.post-30257166578917201582012-03-18T14:14:11.850-07:002012-03-18T14:14:11.850-07:00photo here<a href="http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/kerpe1/view/468950/?page=1" rel="nofollow">photo here</a>felixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12363991252776819712noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7091580307813686433.post-45712357418886383402012-03-18T14:13:06.081-07:002012-03-18T14:13:06.081-07:00Witness Abed Rizaq Ghazim Senussi oddly appears on...Witness <b>Abed Rizaq Ghazim Senussi</b> oddly appears on the text accompanying the <a rel="nofollow">Daniel Berehulak photo of the body in the front loader bucket</a>, labelled <i>TRIPOLI, LIBYA - AUGUST 28: A body relocated from a mass grave next to a warehouse, the site of a massacre, on August 28, 2011 in Tripoli, Libya. Up to 145 people were detained in a warehouse which was then set on fire to on the 23rd of August, locals said. The people, Libyan civilians, were arrested by pro-Gaddafi loyalists for interrogation, some of them months ago. As the Libyan rebel forces were advancing the pro-Gaddafi forces started to shoot the detainees and <b>continued to throw grenades into the warehouse</b>, in order to cover up the interrogations. <b>35 people escaped</b> as the guards were reloading their weapons, according to a survivor, <b>Abed Rizaq Ghazim Senussi from the city of Grames,</b> he being one of them. </i>felixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12363991252776819712noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7091580307813686433.post-31784146809679627282012-03-13T00:21:52.130-07:002012-03-13T00:21:52.130-07:00@hurriya - phoney performance for journalists, 26 ...@hurriya - phoney performance for journalists, 26 Aug. Notice sleeveless guy at 1.17 with RPG who starred in Sky videos. 2.20 - Misrata brigade.felixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12363991252776819712noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7091580307813686433.post-73906787095124470152012-03-13T00:08:24.759-07:002012-03-13T00:08:24.759-07:00Just looking up the HRW report, 29 August.. set o...Just looking up the HRW report, 29 August.. <i> set on fire "within three days"</i><br />What struck me was the bit about an anonymous local resident...(Salem??)....<i>A local resident who <b>lived near the warehouse and had medical training</b> said he heard the shooting and explosions on August 23. Neighbors then approached him to assist with the wounded. The man, who <b>did not want his name disclosed,</b> said:<br /> <br />Last Wednesday, sometime after the early evening prayer, I heard the sound of heavy gunfire and grenades, then complete calm. Then in the evening, my neighbors came to me. They asked if I could help people with gunshot wounds…I told them to take them to the hospital. [The neighbors] were scared to take them to the hospital, so they kept them [at home].<br /> <br />He told Human Rights Watch that Gaddafi forces had begun using the area outside of the Yarmouk military base <b>since about early May.</b> He said that the warehouse in which the detainees were held was previously an agricultural facility.</i><br /><br />The "early May" part of the story is at variance with the <b>Cobb-Smith</b> story from March 2011.felixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12363991252776819712noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7091580307813686433.post-39851549122259213942012-03-12T16:35:28.383-07:002012-03-12T16:35:28.383-07:00Thanks. The Euronews video, had to find an English...Thanks. The Euronews video, had to find an English dubbed version. Added to exterior imagery chronology comments.<br /> <br />The 26th makes sense too. Anytime after the rebels took over and piled the bodies, er, anytime before that. Best if it's just before.Caustic Logichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03082923821952309709noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7091580307813686433.post-65284001733299556032012-03-12T14:29:42.700-07:002012-03-12T14:29:42.700-07:00the fire had to have been started later than the 2...the fire had to have been started later than the 23rd of August. Captive soldier Laskhar says it was done later that week, the UNHRC decided the 25th,<br />http://libyancivilwar.blogspot.com/2012/03/khamis-brigade-shed-massacre-believe.html<br /><br />Three days later the warehouse, used as a makeshift prison, was set on fire but the cause was unknown. [ = 26 ?aug]<br />http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/08/29/libya-idUSL5E7JS0VN20110829<br /><br />http://i41.tinypic.com/24m7z9i.jpg<br />http://i43.tinypic.com/hu2dti.jpg<br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHgXntol98Ehurriyanoreply@blogger.com