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Sunday, February 12, 2012

Khamis Brigade Shed Massacre: Follow-Up Work

January 10, 2012
last update Feb. 12

<< The Tripoli Massacres 
      << The Khamis Brigade Shed Massacre

 I've never been much of an activist, and here especially I've focused on research, finding the best truth on which acvitism could best be grounded, if someone else were to go and do it. But the unfolding case of this alleged massacre is just so large and so poorly constructed, I feel it's worth pushing the issue and seeing if things can be turned around so that truth again can at least seem to matter to the world community.

I'll be continuing to let other things slide around here, as I use my available time to focus on developing the shed massacre evidence, and taking it past research into info-activism; networking, letting people who matter know about it. I wouldn't mind some help spreading the information, especially once I get a nice report put together to rival that of Physicians for 9/11 Truth. Sorry, for Human Rights.

Such things will be collected and explained here. Before I'm quite ready for that level, I'm ironing out my approach at my favorite "skeptics" forum. Feel free to follow along, if anyone bothers to respond.

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=7919292

Feb. 9: That discussion went strangely. No one bothers to argue I was wrong at all. It was all quite unsurprising to them what the rebels would do andcompell so many witnesses to do, they were yawning. But that was to convince me it was boring and worthless and no one cared. I called bullshit on that, people care left and right, so long as the story's right. But when the complicating facts of the 3-D world intrude, it gets all tedious and "oh, both sides are guilty of yadda yadda, who cares? It's all ancient history." Stupid stuff.

So I finally contacte Physicians for Human Rights, tentatively, and started with this, on their message form e-mail page.
I have important information regarding the recent PHR report on the Libyan "32nd Brigade Massacre." Please see that this message gets to whoever is responsible for new research and double-checking old research.

Based on immense research by myself and severl colleagues, I fear that innocent lives are at risk now due to false information passed on widely, by PHR included. Soldier "Laskhar," now soldier Ibrahim Sadeq Khalifa (speaking to AFP recently), Lt. Col. Mansour if captured, and others - all may be innocent. Their accounts and those of the dozens of escapees and other witnesses now on record vary immensely on date, time of day, order of massacre, when the people were burned (alive, or days later), etc.

One witness among these is apparently the NTC's co-chair for missing persons, PHR source Dr. Salem al-Fergani, under a pseudonym ("Dr. Salim Rajub").

There are almost "smoking gun" clues that the rebels conquered the base no later than late on August 23, three days before they admit it, and the same time they say the massacre happened.

And there is much more, consistently pointing the same direction of something wrong with this story. The NTC authorities here may be hunting down those who escaped, forcing them to confess to their cover story, and then planning to quietly kill them too, all within legal guidelines (except for the extra-legal parts, which will just slip by as things are, despite being visible and egregious).

However unlikely that might seem at first blush, the possibility really is great enough to warrant a patient review of the information, and to at least try to put the brakes on this questionable process before more innocent lives are lost to that August massacre. History will treat you kindly for it, even if it creates complications in the short-run.

If PHR is willing to have a look, I plan to submit this info,in condensed and partial form (a full report is still many days off at best), one way or another. By an e-mail address if provided (.doc attachments okay?), and also a print copy mailed in. Phone is an option too, I see, if I don't hear a reasonable response requesting more information or explaining why no review is warranted.

As entered above, again, a response can be sent to: caustic_logic@yahoo.com

Sincerely yours,
Adam Larson / Caustic Logic
Spokane, Washington

The nature of their response or lack of it I will report back on after some time.

Feb. 12: No response yet. I've been neglecting the site and comments, using the free time I have toiron out the CIWCL report on the shed massacre. I almost wanted to call it "Holocaust" Denied, but that's best for a press release or something, maybe. I'm leaning towards "Unlocking the Secrets of Yarmouk: A Second Look at the Khamis Brigade Shed Massacre." Any other suggestions?

Organization (unless revised):
Introduction
Section 1 – Problematic Witnesses
1A – The Captive Soldiers “Confess”
“Laskhar” and Ibrahim Sadeq Khalifa
1B – Believe Who?
General study of witness discrepancies - you can't believe them all, and maybenone.
1C - See-Through Salem
best for last

Section 2 – An Alternative, Evidence-Based Explanation
2A - Rebel Racism and Brutality
(rebels kill and brutalize black men and blame Gaddafi)
2B - Shed massacre victim clues
(victims: black men. Blamed: Gaddafi)
2C - Timeline clues
Why were the rebels aware of the massacre victims within hours of the alleged massacre, when they don't admit to seizing and knowing the area for another three days? Rebels were in charge at the time of the alleged massacre.

Concrete suggestions for considerations there? Petri has some concerns over my timeline clues I'm still not sure I understand. Perhaps beneath is a good spot to has this out beforeI draft that part?

Appendices:
- full witness list
any other suggestions?

43 comments:

  1. Those charred skeletons, with exploded rib cages, and burnt way beyond what bodies which have inflammable fluid poured over them and set alight normall look like, ought to be explored. There are ample excellent photos on the net.

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  2. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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  3. Felix, sorry for the interrupt... That's what I'm about to finish up getting a start on, beginning with the imagery. Get ready to submit links I forgot.

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  4. thank you very much for your work! is it possible to download something in the form of archive?

    btw, i would like to send your link to my danish friend. he lives in so free and wealthy society and has no good info about this libyan coup....

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  5. @FELIX : FOUND SOME PHOTO'S, LET YOUR HEART NOT BREAK :
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/cetfa/4283642341/

    http://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/infocus/ww2_18/w27_05010985.jpg

    http://web.goddard.edu/faculty/eppe/magazines/mag1-08/burnt%20body.jpg

    http://www.uruknet.info/uruknet-images/beirut4.jpg

    http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2011/09/06/the_dark_corners_of_qaddafis_police_state?page=full

    http://publicintelligence.net/pro-gaddafi-loyalists-warehouse-massacre-photos/

    http://www.hindurashtra.org/sabarmati-fire4.jpg
    http://www.hindurashtra.org/sabarmati-fire6.gif

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  6. sorry, once more.

    after looking to linked forum thread (at randi.org) i was disappointed by total ignorance of the people who reacted there - it is much much worse than sad or disgusting...

    next idea is more speculative - is it possible that there was some sort of small burning action before and then one or more big ones after so called loyalists vanished into the thin air?

    if there were live flames on 28th it leads to more consecutive fires to clean the "mess" and more different numbers and so on...

    just guessing.

    and at last - i know that sometimes you are searching for some older videos which are not obtainable through youtube anymore. i have some from the beginning before i was too depressed to continue with downloading it. it is without dates or any description but maybe i could sort somehow and send you in case you do not have some of them? but you know nothing special i think you have most of them.

    and thanks again to you and your contributors. so few people cares for the others who live so far and so many think that it could not happen in their streets... till it really comes and it is too late.

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  7. @ BP: Thanks for some great comments.I think you're not quite new speaking here, but I forget.

    I was disappointed too by the basic response: who cares? It is depressing, but not directly ... it's just their way of saying they suspect I'm right but don't want to hear it. So they say "waste of time, boring, get depressed and stop now." Prior restraint psych out to stop it there.

    Two fires? Sure. Could be. I'll be seeing what the evidence says. Clean-up fire, likely. Burning off a surviving face cleanup, skin with clothing cleanup, neither normal practice I think, but both possible and maybe troubling.

    I'm interested in some video acquisition, eventually.I'm taking slack days on the site and such now.

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  8. @felix :bodies which have inflammable fluid poured over them and set alight normall look like, ought to be explored. There are ample excellent photos on the net.
    Les rebelles brûlent les corps en Libye.flv

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  9. Nice working link, H!

    I don't think I've seen that exact version of this weird little scene.I heard that was in Misrata. Do you happen to know?

    We'd need better examples of tissue up close, and it's best in the charred victims thread, if anyone wants to have a run at this. I'm personally not too interested in the fire. It's the who and when that interest me.

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  10. @CL, here is what i found - i am sure it is only small part... but i can not find the rest.

    01 probably al bayda 16-02-2011, rioting, unidentifiable amount of people (some dozen? more?), nothing special, 2:52

    02 some shooting on protesters(?), well known video, 0:35

    03 yellow hardhats in action, nothing visible except of running hardhats w some civilians, 1:23

    04 montage from libya, riots, hanged people, tv shots, 110 released islamists etc., 10:07

    05 long trip through the streets of some libyan city abandoned by police, 1 dead person (at 4:03, black woman?), 12:12

    06 dead libyan soldiers, some commentary, 0:32

    07 shooting to the hanged person, 0:31

    08 big night demonstration, nothing special, 1:08

    09 mob trying to lynch old man, visible face, 2:39

    10 abuse of (probably dead) black libyan soldier, 0:18

    11 public hanging and cutting into the dead (i hope so) libyan soldier (in front of benghazi courthouse?), i am sure i had more videos of this, 2:55

    12 black libyan soldier captured by mobsters, sort of interrogation?, 1:20

    13 the same one i think, dead with his unlucky fellow, some ugly old man stick into his body with his club, 1:19

    14 another video of lynching mob, part of euronews story 1:06

    15 ugly play with hanged dead body of libyan soldier (hisham mansour), people like it, 3:41

    16 black libyan lynched, 1:00

    + i came across this video today
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WH3KmSokZH0

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    Replies
    1. oh, corrupted text for no.13 - correct is: some ugly old man pokes his stick into the body. sorry for my english (i was in a hurry and somehow muddled the words).

      Delete
  11. @BP :tnx, here is thread :
    http://libyancivilwar.blogspot.com/2011/04/rebel-atrocity-videos.html
    where the atrocity vids can be posted

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    Replies
    1. i did not get it. i have those dowloaded files (166mb) on my local disk but i have no youtube (or other) links anymore. how/where can i upload those files? i thought that some of you would check short descriptions and preselect some and i will send by email or if you have some file storage... sorry, i want to help not to make more complications.

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  12. Abdulsalam Ataher-Ali

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4AXQ9EOfik&feature=related

    ABDUL SALAM ATAHARI held in compound outside tarhouna :
    on friday khadafi arrived at the khamees compound to meet his son khamees
    all of us are gonna leave
    oh gee : ramsay stuart gives proof khamees was targetted and died while fleeing
    ABDUL SALAM IS THE ONLY PERSON TO CONFIRM KHADAFI WAS ALIVE AND IN TRIPOLI IN THE WEEKEND AND THE LAST PERSON WHO SAW KHAMEES BEFORE HIS VEHICLE WAS ATTACKED

    Uploaded by xgotfiveonitx on Aug 30, 2011 [ = TUESDAY]

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    Replies
    1. Highly credible witness (not). Looks like a an infant Bob Dylan.

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    2. Lol, but with this story they try to deliver the proof khamees was far from the base when died.

      and something stay telling me that the smouldering pieces in the shed might be theirs after heavy nato bombing

      do you recognise the building in the vid beneath?

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    3. Somehow the look seems like a Gaddafi loyalist one -long-haired hippies all around. He doesseem young to be a bodyguard of a son, as opposed to the son of a bodyguard. I don't imagine he's credible on whatever he's speaking about here. No one's credible once the rebels take control of them.

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  13. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQ6a-G2eWaY&feature=related

    الله أكبر على رجالك ياليبيا
    Is this shooting near shed?

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    Replies
    1. I don't think it is. It doesn't look likr the face of the base one would see from the main road. Might be the al Mayah base or some other yet.

      Delete
  14. http://i42.tinypic.com/b9ghzd.jpg
    http://i43.tinypic.com/f2v6vk.jpg
    http://i43.tinypic.com/2i6mhvp.jpg

    I WAS HANGING FROM THIS RAIL

    http://i44.tinypic.com/11vr2j6.jpg
    http://i41.tinypic.com/2a6rpli.jpg
    http://i44.tinypic.com/24mcco9.jpg

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  15. http://i42.tinypic.com/9lk9k7.jpg

    wonder why they seem to have changed bodies outside the shed

    http://i41.tinypic.com/xor6sn.jpg

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  16. http://i42.tinypic.com/4kzknr.jpg

    BREAKING Heinz: #NATO has new weapon. up to 50 pre-programmed GPS (my guess) missiles dropped at once from a jet to hit fixed targets #Libya
    http://www.libyauprisingarchive.com/76--710-from-a-good-source.html


    http://i40.tinypic.com/10fvpep.jpg
    http://i42.tinypic.com/14x2zqw.jpg
    http://i41.tinypic.com/iqypgw.jpg
    http://i41.tinypic.com/j9t2rb.jpg
    http://i43.tinypic.com/2ccrm86.jpg
    http://i43.tinypic.com/2ccrm86.jpg
    http://i40.tinypic.com/11cec6o.jpg
    http://i44.tinypic.com/qnww1f.jpg

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  17. wasnt mabrouk abdallah not the first one seeking contact with AP press, before the rajub theatre?

    http://i43.tinypic.com/2dcbvwz.jpg
    http://i44.tinypic.com/2psf895.jpg
    http://i44.tinypic.com/10n81p1.jpg
    http://i41.tinypic.com/33jljdd.jpg
    http://i44.tinypic.com/34rg500.jpg
    http://i40.tinypic.com/e1f96c.jpg

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    Replies
    1. No, that's early next morning. Muammarin wall graffiti is covered with red paint already. Salem is off-duty. I think only French crews and Sky visited on the 27th.

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    2. donderdag 25 augustus 2011, http://nos.nl/l/tcm:5-1038274/TANKS FOUND IN TRIPOLI

      where everybody think Nato visited , can be tuesday or wednesday,c uploading is on thursday

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    3. BOMBING RESULTS IN THE BASE , NO MORE TANKS TO BE SEEN

      http://i39.tinypic.com/148onww.jpg
      http://i39.tinypic.com/zwjatw.jpg
      http://i43.tinypic.com/v81og9.jpg
      http://i39.tinypic.com/f4nqxc.jpg
      http://i44.tinypic.com/ei599y.jpg
      http://i39.tinypic.com/2aaeiav.jpg

      Delete
  18. Then, on June 28, 1996, prisoners rioting over poor conditions and restricted family visits seized a guard and escaped from their cells:

    “Five or seven minutes after it started, the guards on the roofs shot at the prisoners who were in the open areas,” Shafei said in an interview with Human Rights Watch many years later.
    Security officials ordered the shooting to stop and feigned negotiations. But Shafei told Human Rights Watch that the officials instead called in firing squads to gun down about 1,200 people.

    He said a grenade was thrown into the courtyards where the prisoners were gathered.

    “I heard an explosion, and right after, a constant shooting started from heavy weapons and Kalashnikovs from the top of the roofs,” he said. “The shooting continued from 11 until 1:35.”

    Human Rights Watch said it had no way to verify Shafei’s story

    but another description of the incident from a report by the opposition National Front for the Salvation of Libya corroborated Shafei’s account.

    http://www.andyworthington.co.uk/2011/08/27/an-end-to-gaddafis-tyranny-the-liberation-of-the-hated-abu-salim-prison/

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugwe3LreyJI

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  19. el atri and his friends

    http://i40.tinypic.com/445dd.jpg
    http://i42.tinypic.com/14bj6tt.jpg
    http://i39.tinypic.com/ohpqc6.jpg

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    Replies
    1. http://i39.tinypic.com/idglmc.jpg

      el atri again with his friends
      the one to the right may be a victim witness

      Delete
  20. the gloves man :

    http://i41.tinypic.com/2a5i43p.jpg
    http://i40.tinypic.com/m7uil3.jpg
    http://i42.tinypic.com/2zsvivo.jpg

    FELIX . THE 1 SITTING ON FRONT? TRIPOLI BRIGADE
    http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2011/08/24/world/africa/20110825-Libyaearly-slide-XPBN/20110825-Libyaearly-slide-XPBN-jumbo.jpg

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  21. http://i42.tinypic.com/2qk8ni8.jpg
    http://i39.tinypic.com/54k5d.jpg

    felix, wonder the 9 Nigerians stay alive so close to the shed

    http://i39.tinypic.com/30if0qp.jpg
    http://i44.tinypic.com/ojgxl3.jpg

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. felix found your photo :
      http://nationalpostnews.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/libya-1.jpg?w=620

      is this before or after their reir "release"?

      Delete
    2. @hurriya - look here at this Telegraph video Libyan rebels arrest men they suspect of being mercenaries
      28 August 2011 - at 0.26, I don't see any photographer in the road. Same pair of arrested Africans though. Rebels brought them inside the building which they have now taken over as a command centre. The suspects said they were on their way to Italy.

      Mohammed Ayoun, a rebel who had come from Misurata, said the suspects would be taken to a special council set up to deal with suspected mercenaries.


      Then look from about 0.52 onwards in this Telegraph video inside the Khamis Brigade base , Alex Thomson may be heard in one clip. Then compare the grouping with those whom Alex Thomson himself filmed for Channel 4. from about 1.25 onwards. The cast seems to change slightly, even the rebel in charge.Like where does the guy in purple go? I find it all very strange.

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    3. http://i42.tinypic.com/2qk8ni8.jpg
      http://i44.tinypic.com/4qs8xv.jpg
      IN THIS VID THEY pass a small road inside the base to cool of.
      I'm not sure they stand after with the yourno outside the base.

      http://i43.tinypic.com/2ljhqub.jpg
      HERE THEY SEEM TO LEAVE VIA EAGLE GATE

      Mohammed Ayoun,
      http://i40.tinypic.com/p16pl.jpg
      http://i40.tinypic.com/w8m9h5.jpg

      http://i42.tinypic.com/zj8jef.jpg
      http://i44.tinypic.com/99dr8w.jpg
      http://i42.tinypic.com/28krnz6.jpg

      Delete
    4. Yes they seem to go out of separate exits in each video. At the end of the Channel 4 video there are now 10 Africans in the water fountain. The start of the Telegraph video is not credible imho - looks staged. But why?

      Delete
    5. I think they were released and recaptured with no happy end

      Delete
    6. @ felix : somewhere you wonder if it where 9 or more Nigerians in the mysterious vids

      http://img.ziling.com/month_1109/11090706292948398cfd918dc0.jpg
      http://bbs.qianlong.com/thread-6062082-1-1.html

      counting it right it are 11 people on this photo

      Delete
    7. Thanks Hurriya. Actually, the guy with purple shirt seems to be missing from the 11 and there is yet another rebel in control. There is something very very wrong with this story. I do not believe it at all now.

      Delete
    8. @ felix : Do you mean him ?

      http://i44.tinypic.com/2zxqnpf.jpg

      Delete
    9. Wow, Hurriya. That's the guy. Same day??? There are quite a few photos- BBC video too - of that other "arrest" with the English/Irish looking guy with red beard. Need to check. Are these guys fake mercenaries for the press? Or are they like slaves, paraded, in very clean clothes, likewise for the press??

      Delete
  22. AL GOULA
    "We didn't make it a secret," said Mohammed Gula/GOULA , who led a pro-rebel political cell in central Tripoli ,/ acquaintance OF Mlegta

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/06/us-libya-endgame-idUSTRE7853C520110906

    ReplyDelete
  23. LASHKAR
    a mid-level officer with the 32nd Brigade
    I also interviewed a mid-level officer with the 32nd Brigade who took part in the massacre that night. “LASHKAR” was in the room and heard Lt. Col. Mansour order the execution of all the detainees at the compound.
    http://feb17.info/editorials/op-ed-new-libya-needs-justice-and-accountability/#more-40691

    Ibrahim Sadeq Khalifa : photo coïncidence?
    http://www.lematin.ma/journal/Libye_Les-pro-Kadhafi-devant-les-juges/162318.html
    Les accusés ont été arrêtés fin juillet à Benghazi,/the accused are in july arrested in benghazi
    http://feb17.info/page/12/
    By his own admission, Khalifa participated in the mass killing of civilians as Tripoli was falling.

    ReplyDelete
  24. http://i39.tinypic.com/2eed8c8.jpg

    AND DOES HERE AGAIN POP UP THE LOCAL COMPUTER ENGINEER ABDEL HAMID?

    ReplyDelete

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